War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (Full Version)

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Tankerace -> War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 6:49:06 AM)

Since no one has heard about my modding from me in a while, I thought I'd post a teaser from my upcoming War Plan Orange mod. Here are the graphics of the US Dreadnoughts that will make an appearance in the game. Enjoy!

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Tankerace/WarPlanOrange.jpg[/image]

I am looking for a September-October release date for the mod.




Ron Saueracker -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 7:03:36 AM)

I'm a huge fan Tanker! Is this more a what-if with the cancelled Washington Treaty ships or more a historical effort? Gonna take a lot of OOB work.

Dunb question with the South Dakota staring me in the face![:D]




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 7:06:16 AM)

I'm going for a more what if type of thing, because I have alwas wanted to play a game where the battleship is the queen of the sea. The OOB is going to be tough, but doing it is going to give me an excuse to be "sicK" during my college classes now [:D]

I have most of the guns done already, and I am doing the different class graphics, then I will move to actually creating an OOB. A lot of work, but it gives me something to do when not playing WiTP.




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 7:06:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Dunb question with the South Dakota staring me in the face![:D]


hehehe [:D]

Glad you like them Ron.




Ron Saueracker -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 7:21:04 AM)

Always thought the Delawares looked cool with the cage mast/funnel/cage mast/funnel spacing. I laughed when I read that "Ain't Scared 'o' Nothin'" was "considered for the South Carolina...in response to "Dreadnought".[:D]




bradfordkay -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 7:53:58 AM)

Well if it was for the South Carolina, it should have been "T'aint skeered a nuttin!" [:'(]




ATCSMike -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 9:04:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I'm going for a more what if type of thing, because I have alwas wanted to play a game where the battleship is the queen of the sea. The OOB is going to be tough, but doing it is going to give me an excuse to be "sicK" during my college classes now [:D]


OU or OSU?

Their loss is our gain....

Mike, the transplanted OKIE...
[sm=party-smiley-012.gif]




von Murrin -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 9:30:28 AM)

Pretty cool Tank. I'd love to see it when final form hits.[:)]




Montbrun -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 2:23:26 PM)

What are the intended dates of your scenario, Tanker?




AlvinS -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 2:33:36 PM)

Tankerace

Looks great. I look forward to playing this mod. Thank you for doing this.




Bobthehatchit -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 4:04:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I'm going for a more what if type of thing, because I have alwas wanted to play a game where the battleship is the queen of the sea. The OOB is going to be tough, but doing it is going to give me an excuse to be "sicK" during my college classes now [:D]

I have most of the guns done already, and I am doing the different class graphics, then I will move to actually creating an OOB. A lot of work, but it gives me something to do when not playing WiTP.


Cool, love the OOB mods you've done already.

Are they lexington calls BC going to be included?

Will there be any RN involvement?




Oznoyng -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 5:56:00 PM)

Now that I have decoded the scenario files, I was toying with the idea of making an app that replaced the editor and allowed for web based, cooperative scenario editing, better reporting, etc. Not sure how Matrix would feel about that though ...




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 6:13:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ATCSMike

OU or OSU?



Actually NSU for the basics, OSU is too damn high now. I might go there in a year or two though.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

What are the intended dates of your scenario, Tanker?


I'm looking for a 1922 Scenario, which will have the WWI dreadnoughts and predroughts included, and a 1924 variant, which half the predreanoughts will be gone, but the "never-were" South Dakotas, Lexingtons, Amagi, and Kaga class ships come into play.

quote:


Cool, love the OOB mods you've done already.

Are they lexington calls BC going to be included?

Will there be any RN involvement?


Glad you like them Bob. Yep, the Lexingtons will be represented, and as for the RN, I am going to include a full Royal Navy database, although for balance issues only a few of the big ships will see action.

However, I am also considering giving the Japanese a full RN database, and then simulate "War Plan Black" aswell, a hypothetical war between the US and Britain. I'm not sure I'll include that one or not. I might do it as an expansion to the mod.


One cool thing when this is done, is the British ships will bristle with guns, because I nearly have to represent each turret. For HMS Dreadnought, for instance 2 12" guns forward, 2 in a LS mount, 2 in a RS mount, 2 in a Center mount, and 2 facing rear. Its niftry, but its going to take a careful eye to make sure that each ship is modeled correctly. Its gonna be lots o' fun!

Hehe..."ain't Scared o' nothin"... Gotta love us American's.




Bobthehatchit -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/11/2004 11:33:22 PM)

Glad you like them Bob. Yep, the Lexingtons will be represented, and as for the RN, I am going to include a full Royal Navy database, although for balance issues only a few of the big ships will see action.

However, I am also considering giving the Japanese a full RN database, and then simulate "War Plan Black" aswell, a hypothetical war between the US and Britain. I'm not sure I'll include that one or not. I might do it as an expansion to the mod.


One cool thing when this is done, is the British ships will bristle with guns, because I nearly have to represent each turret. For HMS Dreadnought, for instance 2 12" guns forward, 2 in a LS mount, 2 in a RS mount, 2 in a Center mount, and 2 facing rear. Its niftry, but its going to take a careful eye to make sure that each ship is modeled correctly. Its gonna be lots o' fun!

Hehe..."ain't Scared o' nothin"... Gotta love us American's.
[/quote]

Just weight until you do Agincourt 14 12" guns! hehe!

I thought about the Balance as well, the RN was bigger than the IJN and USN put together!

A US-UK Slub fest would be interesting!




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/12/2004 4:52:20 AM)

I will be including some subs, but given the time period they won't be that effective.

This mod will require an entirely new style of playing, as the weapons will be fairly interesting. US, UK, and Japanese submarines will be in the mod, but there torpedoes will be highly innacurate, and prone to duds. However, like surface ship torpedoes, if (IF) you can score a hit, one or two torpedoes will sink a dreadnought, as underwater protection wass not a top priority for the 1910's. Remember, at the battle of Jutland the predreadnought Pommerin took 1 torpedo and exploded, killing the entire crew. As a rule (but not 100%), a dreadnought should be able to take at least 2 torpedoes, but no more than three.

Airplanes too will be limited to scouting for the most part. On the funny note, they will be able to attack ships, but ship AA armament will be fairly limited (3" (14 pounders), 12 pounders, 1 pounders, and machine guns). The Aircraft Carrier, for the most part, will be a long range scout to find the enemy battle fleet.

Another thing that the player will have to realize is that battlecruisers are NOT dreadnoughts. Several battlecruiser types will be represented, and if used improperly, the player can suffer a Jutland.

What I plan to do, in an effort to bring the RN in, is the US will not get all of its dreadnoughts (in the earrly 1920's only 7 were assigned to the Pacific Fleet), but the RN will send some of its older ships to aid the US. So, for balance, the Allied player gets 1/4-1/2 of the US fleet, plus small numbers of British ships, wheras the Japanese get their ENTIRE fleet. Its gonna be interesting!




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/12/2004 7:17:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobthehatchit

Just weight until you do Agincourt 14 12" guns! hehe!



Well, I did some research, and it seems that HMS Agincourt was decommissioned in 1919, and was converted to a depot ship in 1920, BEFORE the Washington Treaty. But, I suppose I can make one....litte... fudge and let her in as a dreadnought, right? [;)]




Smiffus64 -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/12/2004 11:35:35 AM)

It does look great. Will you include the plane carrying airships (USS Macon and Arcon) the US made around 1934? Perhaps it is outside the date range of the scenario though.

Their impact will be perhaps minor, but the idea is just too cool [:)]




Bobthehatchit -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/12/2004 12:08:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobthehatchit

Just weight until you do Agincourt 14 12" guns! hehe!



Well, I did some research, and it seems that HMS Agincourt was decommissioned in 1919, and was converted to a depot ship in 1920, BEFORE the Washington Treaty. But, I suppose I can make one....litte... fudge and let her in as a dreadnought, right? [;)]


Right on!

Obviously due to the changing political situation her conversion was put on hold and she was placed in ordinary reserve. Can't have you leaving out the ship with the largest broad side ever, even if her armour was a little on the light side. 14 12"guns i mean come on!




mutterfudder -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/12/2004 3:12:35 PM)

Sweet![sm=00001746.gif]




Maliki -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/12/2004 4:48:48 PM)

What no dirigibles?[:D]




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/12/2004 9:43:11 PM)

Heh, I wouldn't mind doing derigables, but that would be hard to model. Hmmm.... You know, I could make them act as scout planes, and give them a butload of fuel, and slow speed. But I honestly don't think that WiTP could accurately model it.

As for the Macon and Arcon, I would love to simulate those. But, to do that I would have to make them act as ships, which means large caliber guns could be brought to bear, and I don't think a 16" shell and hydrogen react very well [:D]. Plus, they are about 10 years to modern for my mod, lol.

So far, my class list is pretty big, because what I am going for is to make a large enough mod, that other people could "add-on" to it, and make other scenarios. The only British capital ships that won't be represented are the predreadnoughts preceding the Majestic class (though I might write that class off too), and the dreadnought Canada. The seized, on off Agincourt and Erin will be included, as well as the Outrageous clasS (Corageous and Glorius), but not in their carrier forms. To signify their special purpose role, they will be classified as Heavy Cruisers.

I am not sure yet what RN capital ships will make definate appearances in the scenarios, but the 2 I can guarantee are the Indefatigable class battlecruisers Australia (which belonged to Australia) and New Zealand (which belonged to New Zealand).

HMS Furious will also be in the game, but will appear as she did during WWI, with a landing deck and a flying off deck, separated by a tripod mast.

All US capital ships will be represented with only a few exceptions, even back to the Indiana class battleships that fought the Spanish American War. However, the only ship that will actually be available from this class is the USS Oregon (BB-3), as the other two had been sunk and scuttled before the Washington Treaty was ever heard of.

The exceptions to this rule will be the Mississippi class (BB-14), as in 1914 the two ships were sold to Greece, to become the Kilkis and Lemnos (Ironically, the oldest serving battleships in WW2).

In addition, the USS Langley will also be in the game, and will serve as your scouting tool.

The US never were designs include the 5 South Dakotas, and the 6 Lexingtons.

The Japanese will ahve almost all of their capital ships, dataing back at least to the Russo-Japanese War of 1904. In addition, several ships will actually be ex-Russian ships that were captured at Tsushima and Port Arthur.

Unlike the Americans, the Japanese will have 2 carriers, Hosho and Shokaku. Shokaku was a sister ship, cancelled in 1922 because of the Treaty. She is not the same Shokaku we all know was at Pearl harbor.

Never were designs include the Amagi class battlecruisers, and the Kaga class Battleships.

As for balance, it is more balanced than you think just from a historical standpoint. The RN won't make a large appearance, so it is mostly a showdown between the US and Japan.

The Japanese will be the strongest force, as she will have all her ships, and a good sized, balanced, fleet. Her main defeciency is in submarines. Unlike the US, she has a good strong cruiser force, and her dreadnoughts are all of the latest construction.

The United States will have a much smaller fleet in the beginning, as most of her predreadnoughts are out of commission, and most of her dreadnoughts in the Atlantic. In the begining, she will have only around 7 dreadnoughts available, all on the West Coast. Of her dreadnoughts, only a select few are of the latest construction.

In addition, she lacks a good cruiser force, yet has more destroyers than they know what to do with. As such, the bulk of your destroyer flags and cruiser scouts will have to be your newest ships, the 10 Omaha class cruisers. The rest of your cruisers are either big, slow, armored cruisers, or a variety of protected cruisers dating from before WWI to before the Spanish American war. Your submarines are of a good, large design, but are still nowhere near as effective as the German Uboats of WWI. Torpedoes are stil highly unreliable to even fire, and if they hit, it is up to chance as to whether they detonate or not.

What I believe will make this mod set a success, apart from its array of ships, is the fact that as the player you will have to adjust your tactics. There is no radar, or long range bomber. Submarines and Carriers are scouts, not front line waeapons. And the battleship is not just a tool for invasions. You must rely on speed, armor, and big guns.




Maliki -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/13/2004 6:35:03 AM)

quote:

Heh, I wouldn't mind doing derigables, but that would be hard to model. Hmmm.... You know, I could make them act as scout planes, and give them a butload of fuel, and slow speed. But I honestly don't think that WiTP could accurately model it.


Just to let you know i wasn't being a total smart alec...I have read where the US navy considered dirigibles over planes for recon duty(they scrapped the idea of using them as an offensive platform) because of their greater endurance.They experimented with them for awhile but the whole program seemed to come to nothing after some accidents.From what i have read the pacific was considered the prime location for these craft because of its great size and their ability to patrol more area than conventional aircraft at the time.I guess you're right though,and i thought about that afterwards,they would be a pain to model.I'm sure when you're done with you're scenario i'll be playing it as well.Nice work.




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/13/2004 6:38:52 AM)

I know you weren't being a smart alec, in the 1920's airships were extremly popular and useful. The only thing that really stopped it was the Hindenburg.




Maliki -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/13/2004 6:57:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I know you weren't being a smart alec, in the 1920's airships were extremly popular and useful. The only thing that really stopped it was the Hindenburg.


IIRC the US navy program with dirigibles did not end until sometime in the 30's.I think they even used them in the 40's for anit-sub patrol.

Just call me Dirigible Fanboy[:D]




Cmdrcain -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/14/2004 7:21:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I know you weren't being a smart alec, in the 1920's airships were extremly popular and useful. The only thing that really stopped it was the Hindenburg.


Hydrogen filled I believe.

Don't think Helium ? Filled disappeared, I can recall as a boy Blimps passing in sky in 60's in NJ


Of course those were Like the Goodyear Blimp.




witpit -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/14/2004 9:00:43 AM)

quote:

dirigibles
How about the Russians?

[image]local://upfiles/13562/Vt564259321.jpg[/image]




Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/10/2005 10:30:38 AM)

Don't mean to clog up the WitP forums, but look what I found from exactly a year ago! Wow, we've come a long way. Just thought I'd bump this, to show War Plan Orange then, and now.




WhoCares -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/10/2005 6:30:15 PM)

In this case you probably would have better added a link to the Link: WPO forum. Or put a link to it in your sig [;)]




DrewMatrix -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/10/2005 8:05:22 PM)

I would really enjoy Dirigibles if you can get them to work at all.

Yes, you could make them Scout A/C, ultra high endurance and slow speed as you said. What happens when ou set the endurance to 100 hours or more? Will they actually patrol way out there?

What about making the dirigibles (all of them) "ships" instead? Fragile PT boats maybe (but obviously slow PT boats). That would let you patrol out 2 days from base looking for the Japanese.

And if they were "ships" you could model the Akron and Macon (I don't care if they are too late. We rushed them into production for War Plan Orange).

The USN used blimps pretty late. I remember them in the 1950s based at Alameda Naval Air Station (San Francisco Bay) and I currently live near the old hanger for the Akron and Macon in the south bay.

I would really enjoy Dirigibles if you can get them to work at all.

Oh, I said that.




Bradley7735 -> RE: War Plan Orange Mod: First Look! (8/10/2005 8:47:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

I would really enjoy Dirigibles if you can get them to work at all.

Yes, you could make them Scout A/C, ultra high endurance and slow speed as you said. What happens when ou set the endurance to 100 hours or more? Will they actually patrol way out there?

What about making the dirigibles (all of them) "ships" instead? Fragile PT boats maybe (but obviously slow PT boats). That would let you patrol out 2 days from base looking for the Japanese.

And if they were "ships" you could model the Akron and Macon (I don't care if they are too late. We rushed them into production for War Plan Orange).

The USN used blimps pretty late. I remember them in the 1950s based at Alameda Naval Air Station (San Francisco Bay) and I currently live near the old hanger for the Akron and Macon in the south bay.

I would really enjoy Dirigibles if you can get them to work at all.

Oh, I said that.


Subs could "sink" them with torpedoes. That's really the only major drawback. And surface ships could shoot them down with guns that really couldn't fire on them.




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