Sea of JAPAN ? (Full Version)

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mjjhnim -> Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 6:53:55 AM)

Hi, thankyou for the great game and many support on this board.
but I would like to address the need for some changes in the map.
The Sea of Japan is totally wrong, it should be EAST SEA. It was "east sea"
for hundreds of years...before Japan's muddling.

Japan is economic power house and never learned from the
history about their savage treatment of Koreans and Chinese and Allied POWs.
If they have the means, these pople will do the same things...

Now they want a sea of their own... so instead of EAST SEA, its now Sea of Japan.
Japan spends alot of money, influencing map making companies around the world.
But what is wrong is wrong. I hope MATRIX can make things right.

These map problems may mean nothing to you guys. But it sure means a lot to
millions of people in Korea. We been mudered and attacked by Japan for many
years, and now in this modern age, just because Japan is regaining their world
power status in economy,and military. We shall never accept Japan taking our
sea and land.

Please help us.



Fallschirmjager -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 7:03:15 AM)

Every map I am finding online has it listed as the sea of Japan



mjjhnim -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 7:23:40 AM)

We can not match the amount of money spent by Japan on this current issue.
And in World politics we are a small fish compared to Japan.

I am sure you can find some true maps(old maps), US government site lists them as
East sea/Sea of Japan. Some other countries lists them according to Europian
standard based by FRANCE.

France originally listed them as EAST SEA, but a few years ago, after a pressure from
Japan, they changed it to Sea of japan.

We can only read this movement of Japan as a future leverage to use it against us.
when the time comes for the island despute called "doko-do" located between korea
and Japan.

Imagine if some xxx country became so powerful, and they rename Pacific ocean to
sea of XXX. Then they start to say the Howaii is their Island. What would you do?



wworld7 -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 8:26:35 AM)

When the Irish are the Masters of the world the Pacific ocean will be renamed Flipper Bay.

And France will be turned into a parking lot EXCEPT for the champagne region.

All other changes will be determined after our leaders sober up.



carnifex -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 8:56:20 AM)

The map files are simple bitmaps. You can alter them yourself with any editor and rename anything you like. As for Matrix changing the maps, you can forget about it - not for political reasons but because they won't make us download the file again for a simple cosmetic issue that can be fixed locally to the users liking.

As a matter of fact, you can already download a map mod which has all the sea names removed.

I must also take exception as your characterization of the Japanese. Whatever your issues are with the Japanese nation and people, they do not belong here on this forum. It is simply wrong to bring this kind of inflamatory rhetoric here. Wargaming is a controversial hobby enough as it is, with "civilians" sometimes unable to sometimes understand why some people enjoy pushing stacks of SS units around a map, when those same units in real life were involved in questionable events that resulted in horrific loss of life.



Bodhi -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 9:09:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjjhnim

I am sure you can find some true maps(old maps), US government site lists them as
East sea/Sea of Japan. Some other countries lists them according to Europian
standard based by FRANCE.

France originally listed them as EAST SEA, but a few years ago, after a pressure from
Japan, they changed it to Sea of japan.



I didn't know that the French were the guardians of the names on English-language maps. Of course, I knew that they are (or at least they think they are[;)]) the guardians of such things as the some of the SI units like the metre and kilogram, just didn't realise they also had the map-naming concession. It seems a bit strange that they'd bow to Japanese pressure and rename the East Sea to the Japan Sea without also trying to swap "The Manche" for the "English Channel".[:D]



mjjhnim -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 10:07:00 AM)

I am sorry but simple characterization might be true in your view point...

but I saw how germans totally cleared up their WWII wrong doings with their neighbers
and I don't see Germany going around and asking for land or sea concessions to Poland,France...etc.

what you claim as rhetoric is reality for us. check the news papers in the Asia sections...



Hortlund -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 1:17:12 PM)

While we are at it, can we change "Los Angeles" to "City of Angels"?

I am so sick and tired of the use of Spanish in an English map [:@] [:@][:-]

It is time to break the back of the Spanish influence over US spelling and domestic issues. Spain is an economic power house and never learned from the history about their savage exploitation of US cities. Spain is right now opressing us all by forcing us to use their language! [:@]

MATRIX can make things right!!

Btw, FRANCE supports my struggle against Spanish city names in North America!



Platoonist -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 1:45:35 PM)

I agree with carnifex. Download the blank map mod....or Photoshop them yourself. I simply don't think it's in Matrix Games' power to correct every geographical injustice in the world.

*Sigh* Now I know why the only Sea of Tranquility is on the moon. Doubtless someday there will be complaints. Didn't those *%@$#& Earthlings know there isn't even any water in 'em? [8|]

[img]http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/ioweek/archive/00-07-17/moon_tranquilitythumb.jpg[/img]



52nd Lowland -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 3:36:36 PM)

Is the Sea of Japan also called the Inland Sea by Japanese ?



tsimmonds -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 3:46:55 PM)

quote:

Is the Sea of Japan also called the Inland Sea by Japanese ?

No, the Sea of Japan is the one between Japan and Korea. The Inland Sea is the one between Honshu, Shikoku, and Kyushu, where Hiroshima/Kure is.

By the way, this has been called the Sea of Japan for many years. I have always known this body of water by that name, and every account of WWII I have ever read refers to it as the Sea of Japan. In fact, until this morning I have never heard of it referred to as anything but "the Sea of Japan".

The arguement that the Japanese somehow caused some name switch here just doesn't hold water. In fact the idea that the Japanese could have had any such influence, either prior to WWII or after it, is just fishy. And should you persist in this uncalled-for baiting, then sir, all I can say to you is: go jump in a lake!



Bodhi -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 3:52:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 52nd Lowland

Is the Sea of Japan also called the Inland Sea by Japanese ?


No, the inland sea is between Shikoku and Honshu. See hexs 60,41 62,41 & 62,42 on the map. Looks more like a big river on the map, but it isn't that wide at points as some of the longest bridges in the world span it.



52nd Lowland -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 3:57:37 PM)

Thanx always wondered where it was [:D]



Arkady -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 4:00:59 PM)

whoa, East Sea is called Sea of Japan...terrible, entire game is spoiled [8|]

East Sea or Sea of Japan?

What is the historically correct name for the body of water lying between Korea and Japan? There are many opinions, and in the world of geography and maps there is often more than one answer. In short, it depends on whom you ask.

Before the 18th century, no one name was consistently used, and in fact varied names such as "East Sea," "Sea of Korea," "Sea of Japan" and "Oriental Sea" appeared in and on old maps, publications and atlases. Then for a variety of reasons the "Sea of Japan" became more prominent in the 19th and 20th centuries.

In the late 1990s the Voluntary Agency Network of Korea (VANK) began an aggressive letter and email writing campaign, all in an effort to get the world, especially map makers, travel guides and geography web sites to include the East Sea, whenever the long-established Sea of Japan was found in print.

Their claim that the East Sea has some historical precedent worked, as some major book and map publishers, educational web sites and other reference materials now include the East Sea name along with the Sea of Japan.
source: worldatlas.com

mjjhnim, are you member of VANK ? [8D]



tsimmonds -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 4:13:26 PM)

Everyone, it seems, has his own little axe to grind.....



Crimguy -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 4:32:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Everyone, it seems, has his own little axe to grind.....


Yup. But when you're like me, and your axe is complaining about your wife, you're in good company! [:-]



rogueusmc -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 4:51:19 PM)

I know we have a lake that some call 'Lake Dallas' and some call it 'Lake Louisville' it all depends on the side of the lake you live on....[:)]



vonmoltke -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 5:10:06 PM)

We need a tinfoil hat smilie. [:D]



carnifex -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 5:14:16 PM)

How about this one -------> [sm=crazy.gif]



vonmoltke -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 5:15:52 PM)

Forgot about that one. It is appropriate. [:)]

Tinfoil has its own special quality, though. [;)]



Hortlund -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 5:31:19 PM)

*sigh* No one thinks Im funny
[:(]



tsimmonds -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 5:40:22 PM)

Sorry, we're all too busy laughing at our own jokes. Nice post, btw. LMAO. Really, I did.



Tomo -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 5:47:59 PM)

Dear mjjhnim.

Welcome a board.
I know your hard feelings about historical problem.
However this is just a game. Not real war. Relax [;)]

This game simulate during WWII period. Unfortunately Korea was occupied by Japan at that time.
I feel "Sea of Japan" is suitable for WitP( I don't know for other place), isn't it?
Let's enjoy WitP together[:)]
BTW, Which side are you playing this game? Of course as Allied player?



pompack -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 6:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

I know we have a lake that some call 'Lake Dallas' and some call it 'Lake Louisville' it all depends on the side of the lake you live on....[:)]


Yes but some ignore the civic chauvinism and call it Garza-Little Elm Lake (especially the people who live in Little Elm, Texas)



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 6:54:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjjhnim

Hi, thankyou for the great game and many support on this board.
but I would like to address the need for some changes in the map.
The Sea of Japan is totally wrong, it should be EAST SEA. It was "east sea"
for hundreds of years...before Japan's muddling.

Japan is economic power house and never learned from the
history about their savage treatment of Koreans and Chinese and Allied POWs.
If they have the means, these pople will do the same things...

Now they want a sea of their own... so instead of EAST SEA, its now Sea of Japan.
Japan spends alot of money, influencing map making companies around the world.
But what is wrong is wrong. I hope MATRIX can make things right.

These map problems may mean nothing to you guys. But it sure means a lot to
millions of people in Korea. We been mudered and attacked by Japan for many
years, and now in this modern age, just because Japan is regaining their world
power status in economy,and military. We shall never accept Japan taking our
sea and land.

Please help us.


Take it to a political forum....



mdiehl -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 7:00:05 PM)

Isn't "Sea of Japan" in any case a name bestowed by the 'evil' UK ([&o] rule, Britannia) and Portugese?

Well, mjjhnim, I'm not sure for whom you are advocating. Your point is worth noting but people will call things what they will. I'm pretty sure that most Native Americans would not refer to the "Gulf of California" as that or the "Sea of Cortez." Most Americans call Arizona, New Mexico, and southern California the "southwest" but most Mexicans call it the "northwest." Some Mexicans call it "stolen" land despite the fact that the US purchased half the property fair and square, and conquered the other half in a war started by Mexico. Ironic that the Mexicans call it that when it was they, in turn, who "stole it" from the Queen of Spain, and Spain, in turn, stole it from the various Native Americans living there at the time.

So what can you do? Every tribe has a different name for geographic features great and small, but you can only use one name on a map.



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 7:02:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Isn't "Sea of Japan" in any case a name bestowed by the 'evil' UK ([&o] rule, Britannia) and Portugese?

Well, mjjhnim, I'm not sure for whom you are advocating. Your point is worth noting but people will call things what they will. I'm pretty sure that most Native Americans would not refer to the "Gulf of California" as that or the "Sea of Cortez." Most Americans call Arizona, New Mexico, and southern California the "southwest" but most Mexicans call it the "northwest." Some Mexicans call it "stolen" land despite the fact that the US purchased half the property fair and square, and conquered the other half in a war started by Mexico. Ironic that the Mexicans call it that when it was they, in turn, who "stole it" from the Queen of Spain, and Spain, in turn, stole it from the various Native Americans living there at the time.

So what can you do? Every tribe has a different name for geographic features great and small, but you can only use one name on a map.


The winners write the history books and the maps....been that way from the dawn of human history....



UncleBuck -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 7:03:36 PM)

You are Crazy. I named that body of water. It shoudl rightly be called... BOB. I was going to name it Robert, but I thought it was too pretentious.

So I woudl liek you to stop lobbying to get the name changed to "East Sea" I am not mentioning it to Matrix because , well I don't care what they call it. But I do think that it shoudl be called BOB and not East Sea.

I am looking at having it's legal name changed from BOB to EEKY EEKY EEKY NI NI NI But I am not sure Monty Python woudl approve. [:D]



mdiehl -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 7:16:17 PM)

As an example of what happens when negotiations end in a draw... there is a lake in the state of Massachusetts that has retained its Nipmuck (Native American) name, which I can't spell, and translates to: "You fish on your side, we'll fish on our side, nobody fishes in the middle." [:D]



Charles2222 -> RE: Sea of JAPAN ? (8/12/2004 7:30:00 PM)

It seems a bit silly to me. Down here in Texas we have the Gulf of Mexico and nobody assumes it's Mexican territory. There's bits of it that are Mexico and bits of it that are US, while the rest is neutral I suppose. Seems that's how waters would be interpeted worldwide wouldn't it?



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