Version 7.1 - Looking Good!! (Full Version)

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Figmo -> Version 7.1 - Looking Good!! (2/6/2002 10:25:00 AM)

Been checking the new OOBs and exe for Ver 7.1 and I'm REAL HAPPY with what they've done. It's great how Matrix listens to ALL of us and somehow comes up with a compromise that really works. I don't know for sure when but it can't be long now before it's finalized - then look out!



Paul Vebber -> (2/6/2002 1:38:00 PM)

I think we have a release candidate - the ltest changes are: Rfit point halved in long campaign do to popular demand Japanese will now fall back, and rout, but retreat and pinned is recovered from every turn like fantic Russians (but without the roll) So Japs will no longer stay frozen in place once pinned to be decimated, they fall back, regroup and come right back at you. In human hands this can be quite a handful! Marines Beware Redid break down rolls making them in general less often and making trucks out of the building wrecking business. Tried fix oddities in bad weather wreck costs, troops run to those dry toasty flaming wrecks in teh ain still Also tried to fix "tank riders "turnig vehicle" to no avail - risked breaking more than than were fixed. Note that The new skirt vs Heat routine makes skirts VERY tough to get pat until the tank takes a few damage points, then you can aim where the skirts are gone. Makes Bazookas a lot less effective. With luck 7.1 will be out this weekend sometime. [ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]



Bing -> (2/6/2002 1:59:00 PM)

Does anyone besides myself find it odd that more often than not when I shoot up an enemy leg unit at close range, they are reduced in number, gain supression and run straight at me? Repeatedly. My own men do the same thing, so it can't be a national characteristic. Not unworkable or even all that annoying, just rather odd. On a happier note: Thank you one and all for the new ablility to log everything during a turn to a text file, including the artillery fire and counterbattery. I'm using it every turn now in Heroes of the Motherland and I like it. Bing



mogami -> (2/6/2002 3:13:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Bing:
Does anyone besides myself find it odd that more often than not when I shoot up an enemy leg unit at close range, they are reduced in number, gain supression and run straight at me? Repeatedly. My own men do the same thing, so it can't be a national characteristic. Not unworkable or even all that annoying, just rather odd. On a happier note: Thank you one and all for the new ablility to log everything during a turn to a text file, including the artillery fire and counterbattery. I'm using it every turn now in Heroes of the Motherland and I like it. Bing
Hi Bing look and check where the retreat hexes are placed. Units should fall back towards the A0 HQ and/or retreat hex. If they are placed on the wrong side of map units 'retreat' towards the enemy but they are really just going towards that hex.



Bing -> (2/6/2002 3:32:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mogami:
Hi Bing look and check where the retreat hexes are placed. Units should fall back towards the A0 HQ and/or retreat hex. If they are placed on the wrong side of map units 'retreat' towards the enemy but they are really just going towards that hex.

That's a designer's failure then isn't it? While it does answer the question - I will look next time this happens - the real question is why do some designers fail to recognize rather important elements. Scenarios do get tested, but I also know that valid criticisms are not always addressed. Just ship it ... like most things in life, some are better than others. Bing



skukko -> (2/6/2002 3:56:00 PM)

Howdy Units do retreat at first to where ever they can. In next turn they will retreat towards their own retreat flag. You can count these retreaters assault to get away as fast as possible. Or you can think that they are wounded but want to die for Motherland. Suicide assaults were not Japan priviledge.
zzzzz Retreat hexes at the wrong side of the map? This happens usually in pbems and when designing scenarios without better knowledge (rookie) of editors behavior. Heroes of Motherland should be set ok, it is so old that this would have come out before many times if not ok... -and yes, testers do forget sometimes all obvious info but rant of something that has no value. That we can count to human nature mosh



mogami -> (2/6/2002 4:10:00 PM)

Hi, also if you circle around the enemy to come in behind him your units will now have to retreat through the enemy to get to a correctly placed retreat hex. Islands can cause problems for assaulting troops (the retreat hex is off the island hopefully behind the beach you landed on so be carefull about where you send landing craft. When you design a battle you first set what sides of the map the units deploy on (axis on right allied on left) but if you deploy without setting this correctly a problem occurs (If you don't know about setting sides you probly also forget retreat hexes) The retreat hexes will automatically be placed along the back map edge. I have seen them placed on wrong sides. Some battles have a further problem, one side has units that are surrounded by the enemy with units also deployed to resuce them (I think there are several North Africa battles this way) The troops that are cut off should retreat towards the retreat hex but this will still require them to appear to be advancing on the enemy( they are going to run over them to get away)



jwarrenw13 -> (2/6/2002 9:01:00 PM)

I was taught that the best way to escape an ambush was to go violently toward and thru the ambushers. Staying in place gets you killed. Running away gets you killed and keeps you in their fields of fire. Running to the flank probably runs you directly in to mines etc. placed just for that purpose. So perhaps our SPWAW soldiers were simply taught that technique.



RichardTheFirst -> (2/7/2002 12:18:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by JW:
I was taught that the best way to escape an ambush was to go violently toward and thru the ambushers. Staying in place gets you killed. Running away gets you killed and keeps you in their fields of fire. Running to the flank probably runs you directly in to mines etc. placed just for that purpose. So perhaps our SPWAW soldiers were simply taught that technique.
I discussed this some months ago. What I don't like in that is the status of the unit. Shouldn't the unit be in a "heroic" or "beserk" status instead of "retreating" or "routed" when 'retreating' forward? [ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: RichardTheFirst ]



Figmo -> (2/7/2002 12:47:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Bing:
Does anyone besides myself find it odd that more often than not when I shoot up an enemy leg unit at close range, they are reduced in number, gain supression and run straight at me? Repeatedly. My own men do the same thing, so it can't be a national characteristic. Not unworkable or even all that annoying, just rather odd...... Bing
I've had this happen too. Usually when the units are out in the open and the AI can't figure out which is the best way to go. Now getting behind units so they'll retreat toward me is fun - especially if I can Over-run them. I've lost a few tanks doing that though, some unit in the bushes nearby that I didn't see - ARGH!!



Redleg -> (2/7/2002 1:04:00 AM)

There is only a single retreat hex. Assuming it has been placed properly, there is still a straight line which must be drawn from the unit to its retreat hex. If enemy units are in the way, strange retreat paths result. A lot of factors involved here. Size of the map is a big issue since units on either flank are much more likely to be cut off from their retreat hex. Partially or fully surrounded units are also likely to "retreat" in strange directions. Commandos, paratroops, partisans all contribute to the problem. It just isn't possible to predict all of the things that might happen in the playing of a scenario. The single retreat hex is a game limitation we just have to live with.



Bing -> (2/7/2002 1:44:00 AM)

Gentlemen - Thank you one and all for the discussion of enemy units retreating directly at the firing unit. I've picked up a good bit of knowledge and thats a lot of the reason we are here. I think I could buy a change to "berserk" status for Russian troops when they break and run towards the enemy. And now that I've been paying closer attention to the action, I see where the broken unit indeed does not always charge at their tormentors, just sometimes and per above - it depends. I would also again like to thank whoever gave us the Alt-L switch to enable writing combat action to a text file. It does arty fire and everything, including how many rockets were fired and complete detail when my Sturmoviks attack the naughty Germans. Way to go, guys!! Been asking for this for a long time - again it proves to me there never has been a more responsive group than those in charge of SP TLC (tender loving care). As we used to say in Chicago: Donkey shane! (aka danke schoen). BTW, the newest mech.exe (Paul this is for you) is doing just fine in the standard HoM campaign. I haven't had the opportunity to inspect the German units closely, but will in another camp or scen - I expect the newest OOB's will be working out rather well. Thanks again to everyone, Bing



Fuerte -> (2/7/2002 3:00:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Bing:
Does anyone besides myself find it odd that more often than not when I shoot up an enemy leg unit at close range, they are reduced in number, gain supression and run straight at me?
Yes, this happens very frequently. You only need to get behind enemy lines and they retreat directly at you. It's a problem in AI, it's not too smart with this. This has been the biggest non-bug problem in SPWAW for a very long time.



Charles2222 -> (2/7/2002 11:36:00 PM)

quote:

Rfit point halved in long campaign do to popular demand
alright!



KG Erwin -> (2/8/2002 6:10:00 AM)

I'm REALLY looking forward to 7.1. The Japs won't just stay in place and be incinerated? OMG, this may mean a replay of the long USMC campaign for me. In 24 battles, the casualty ratio was 8:1 in favor of the Marines in my last campaign. I STILL want a chance to invade Japan, though. Anyone got an Operation Olympic scenario in the making?



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