Lost Victories Oddity (Full Version)

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FNG -> Lost Victories Oddity (2/11/2002 4:35:00 PM)

Having started afresh with LV following a bizarre incident in the Pripet marshes (where my undamaged A0 was killed by long-range rifle fire while in a halftrack which wasn't hit), I got back to the "Exploitation Radziechow" scenario (no node or number on map). I was seriously kicking the Ivans and storming up the road to the victory exit hex, when the game ended on turn 7 with a draw. How the Ivans managed to score 700 odd points and why the game terminated where it did are a complete mystery. Any suggestions? P.S. Even the the occasional minor issue, SPWaW is still the finest, most addictive wargame I have found in many years.



Rexxx -> (2/11/2002 4:51:00 PM)

I exprerienced a similar sudden death in scenario#3 "A vital bridge".
The battle went well, at least I thought. I lost about a dozen men, 2 Opel Blitz, 1 StuG was damaged (after bailing out the crew was chased down), 1 SdKfz 250/1 and three gilders. The Brandenburgers secured the bridge, captured the VHs in turn 2 and hold them till the end.
After destroying the enemy in the SW part of the map and the armored reinforcements which came from NW, the game ends after turn 11. I got a draw (861:342) and the battle report mentioned heavy losses (!!), IMO a "Lost Victory".
I replayed the scenario, slightly different losses (but the gliders again). The same result, after destroying 80-90% of the spotted enemy, the scenario ends. In this case after turn 10, again only a draw.
BTW, is it only my impression that the Russian units concentrate their firepower on crewmen. After playing 3 battles in LV I don't consider the "9"-bailing out-Hotkey to be a lifesaver. I like the AI behaving this way, I do the same. A tank can be replaced, an experienced crew can't. In battle #2 ("Castle and NCO-School") I found the three Russian infantry units playing hide-and-seek in my rear area (and capturing VHs) a surprising but nice feature. The battle conditions in battle #1 show a length of 151 turns (obviously a typo), the scenario ends after 16 turns. Don't get me wrong, I don't complain. LV seems to be great and will even be greater after patching. Looking forward to many hours of Eastern Front warfare... [ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Rexxx ]



Supervisor -> (2/11/2002 9:14:00 PM)

This issue have been addressed and the whole LV Mega has been reworked. Look for a patch to fix the LV Mega very soon once the final verification testing has been completed.



Rexxx -> (2/12/2002 1:13:00 AM)

Thanks for the answer, gmenfan.
I just read Brent Richard's statement in another thread - http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=008454 - and want to express my disappointment. I purchased a complete game which is only unfinishable??!! (And I'm posting about such minor issues here...)
If I would do anything similar in my job (civil engineer) someone would have my head on a silver platter and I couldn't even complain.
Naive as I obviously am I bought all MCs at once. Well, I will never again buy a game by Matrix within the first three months after releasing.



skukko -> (2/12/2002 2:40:00 PM)

I have all megacamps. I have played only LV more than first 2-3 battles. This because I am waiting final release of mech.exe. That don't caus eme any problems and don't keep me out of this game. I do approciate all what Matrix has done with volunteeringly (about) doing and serving us updates from classics that don't otherwise run on our highend machines. I would have stopped playing with pc if I had not SPWAW... I've played LV more because I have tested it half of a year. But all what can be found with playing it, ain't necessary things that you find. As I have made it thru draws and decisive vics to battle 22 without loops or crashes, -and after flow of odd events started to come out I am amazed how screwed its been with you. Anyway, I would have played more but have been forced to be creative and go over these scenarios to find weirdness you have found. Scenarios have been tested many times. If something has been wrong it has been fixed. Or something added. Here is problem; many swithces in editor are reseted while scenario is opened and again saved in defence-missions for AI. And everytime new scen-pack of nodes are created. This has caused that some old (greenies) have exploited their ways to LV, and these are abit problem. Or were.. not to mention new bugs in new mech... I am still pissed off that I have missed years earlier MC for Steel Panthers... how the hell it did get thru my hands... so if you have that package, sell it to me. I am also dissapointed of LV, simply because I CAN*T PLAAAAAAY This game, I'll have to edit it !!!!!!!! so be glad and play some pbems and scenarios, get your skills to next level and challenge LV after that... mosh



David Heath -> (2/12/2002 10:17:00 PM)

Rexxx Brent is sick and was not clear on what he was trying to relay. These Mega Campaigns are tested and tested. I would read Brent's second post in that forum thread. I can not tell you the amount of hours Bill Wilder and Brent Richard's teams have spent making these MC. We are close to having the MCLV patch and the new v7.1 SPWaW patch. If we or MC Teams really made poor products it would have apeared a lot sooner and you would never find the work level to be this high.



mogami -> (2/12/2002 10:38:00 PM)

Hello, I have lifted one of my rants from another thread (La Grande Armee "Demos") I could of course be wrong but i don't think of Matrix as a software company. I am not an Matrix employee so my views are are my own, But I do consider Matrix
mine in that I am a wargamer and I want to see that computer wargames have a future any ways heres my previous rant when people got irrate over not getting demos "Hey Matrixgames are for GROGNARDS!!!! A grognard does not need a demo. A grognard MUST have any new wargame. A grognard will learn the history behind the game after he buys it to improve his understanding of it. Grognards have closets and dest draws full of war games they have never actually played (but they carried the manual around for a month, read a dozen books on the subject after they obtained the game) As long as some where in the world some poor grognard programer is working on a game about the Boer War another grognard rubs his hands together in glee waiting to be the first person to buy it. (and post an AAR) and then pick it to pieces with newly aquired knowledge ("the 1st Ausse Rgt was armed with Lee Metford's not Lee Enfields blah blah) Grognards sleep best at night knowing somewhere the ultimate wargame is slowing coming into existence and will send cash 3 years in advance just to keep it crawling along. Bah I don't need no stinking demo or screen shots. All I need is the knowledge that somewhere a grognard toils in my behalf. Matrix should have a statement on their registration where you have to certify that you are a Grognard in good standing to become a member, persons who say no should be hpyerlinked to some other web site their IP recorded and banned. This is the land of Grognard dreams. Anygame you want on any subject is possible in the future here. Start gathering data and gain support for it. Learn programing put a team together. No matter how bad it looks in the beginning before the product is called finished it will dazzle grognards far and near. No game is finished here intill the grognards out there say it is. So don't worry if the interface is weird the first time you look at it, or the graphics out of 'South Park' before it's done you'll love it. Matrix is not a software/game company it's grognards making games for other grognards" my point there as well as here, is if you want to hold Matrix to the standards you would hold a regular comerical company then you will force them to take lots of time before they release anything. Expect problems but also expect the problems to be addressed and fixed. We are the quality control team for Matrix. When you buy a Matrix product you are more a patron to the art of wargaming then a customer or consumer. One thing you can rest assured of is if you do have a complaint at least here it will be listened to and resolved.



FNG -> (2/12/2002 10:48:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mogami:
When you buy a Matrix product you are more a patron to the art of wargaming then a customer or consumer. One thing you can rest assured of is if you do have a complaint at least here it will be listened to and resolved.

I think this is the finest summary of the situation that I have yet heard. Well said!



Mojo -> (2/13/2002 12:59:00 AM)

Really? The Boer War!? Has it gone gold yet?



Wild Bill -> (2/13/2002 6:59:00 AM)

I know Brent and his team are working very hard to correct the problems encountered with MCLV. And if you want something to do in the meantime, there is always MC-NA and MC-W (slight plug there - ). Or try the new Tiger scenarios over at Fabio's site. We are all doing our best. We are learning. We want a fine product to go out to you. Remember, we are gamers too. We feel disappointment just like you. Much more is involved than you may realize, gentlemen. We strive to do it right. And we will. As for hours put in on MC-NA and MC-W as mentioned by David, you could measure them in the hundreds, mine alone. Add to that the many, many hours put in by the team captains and their team members and you have an investment of a lot of hours. The goal of all that was to bring you something special, something that would bring to light all the great features invcluded in SPWAW. We care! I care! And we'll get there. We won't stop till we do. Thanks for your patience. This is not a defense, but more of the ramblings of one who has spent a lot of time in front of this computer trying to get everything right. Wild Bill



Supervisor -> (2/13/2002 10:18:00 AM)

To keep you up to date, they hope to have all testing and verification done by Friday, meaning the LV patch(which is different from the 7.1 patch) could be available within a few days from that. I will keep you informed on it's progression.



Rexxx -> (2/14/2002 6:51:00 PM)

I appreciate your answers. I do not doubt the almost endless hours of designing, playtesting, re-designing, coordinating the team members, checking the mech.exe and OOB-developments, playtesting etc.. I know that drill too well. I'm in a different business but the process of planning, developing and - at last - building (or releasing) complex products seems to be the same everywhere.
Real Life limits my SPWaW-experience to a few very precious hours mostly at weekends or during holidays. Combine this with great expectations regarding LV (an Eastern Front MC, the closest thing possible to my wargaming preferences) and you have a perfect foundation for disappointment.
So, I'll keep my impatience at bay, wait for the patch and have a look around El Agheila next weekend.



AbsntMndedProf -> (2/14/2002 8:59:00 PM)

I sincerely hope that noone, either Matrix staff or fellow wargamers, misconstrues my posts relating glitches that I've encountered as meaning that I have any negative feelings towards Matrix or its excellent staff or its games! It is precisely because I enjoy SP:WaW and its MCs and getting to interact with the people here that I report these things. Perhaps I should do this by email. If so, please let me know, and I will gladly refrain from posting such issues here. I highly reccomend SP:WaW and its MCs to anyone who enjoys WW II wargames! Thanks again for all the fun that I've enjoyed, and will continue to enjoy with Matrix's games. Eric Maietta



skukko -> (2/15/2002 4:58:00 PM)

Story is this: After two weeks sleepless nights we have cured all known errors from the LV, and mech I'll suppose. We have gathered first patch to LV that covers design-based errata as well those due to OOB changes. Brent has done txt-adjustments and corrections and we have done rest. Rockin Harry found cure for odd leader and core behavior. Sounds are working fine in most PCs and some of them will be updated, but that is for later. Thing is that yiou have update that allows you to play game without problems. First 21 nodes and some of diverting routes had errors, as victory exit flag beside maps border and by so causing crash to desktop. As you play after download we will go ahead and search remaining nodes thru for ghosts andother errors. It takes time some weeks if we speak realistically. Update is not big for LV, about 2-3 megs. mosh
Team Cpt
Lost Victories



Bing -> (2/15/2002 9:59:00 PM)

Mosh - Thank you for the update. Do we have a (tentative) release date for the LV fixes? I would like to resume play pretty soon, I think LV is one of the most ambitious and fascinating endeavors I have seen in gaming - over a lot of years I will add. Question: When we do get the LV Fix, should we start over from the first battle? Can we back up and restart at a particular point, say the end of a battle before the first screen of the next battle, thus saving ourselves a replay? Also: Thank you for the photo montage images - I downloaded all three and chose the one featuring the US: Couple of Shermans, an AC and a dead cow. Loaded it into Photoshop, made a 50 pixel border around the image. Eyedroppered a key color, made that the border color and texturized it to canvas. Looks great, using it as my Win98 wallpaper. At last! A usable image that contains images of US troops and equipment. My mother thanks you, my father thanks you, my sister thanks you, if I had a brother he too would thank you... Final Note: Can one contract jungle rot from playing Watchtower nonstop? Am going to find out. USPS just delivered the MC-W disk. Horray!!! Bing



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