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Popoi -> NTW (9/3/2004 1:03:01 AM)

when/if someone mods RTW into Napoleonic Total War, i will dig a pit in the woods and hide there with my computer for a year. soooo sweet.

IMO Nap. TW was pretty buggy for MTW though, and grossly imbalanced.




Von Rom -> RE: NTW (9/3/2004 8:44:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Popoi

when/if someone mods RTW into Napoleonic Total War, i will dig a pit in the woods and hide there with my computer for a year. soooo sweet.

IMO Nap. TW was pretty buggy for MTW though, and grossly imbalanced.



Have you tried NTW v5.0 yet?

Is it any better balanced?




Lucifuge -> RE: NTW (9/3/2004 12:44:42 PM)

quote:

when/if someone mods RTW into Napoleonic Total War, i will dig a pit in the woods and hide there with my computer for a year. soooo sweet.


FYI there is a Napoleon era game coming out that is in Rome/Medieval Total War style called Imperial Glory http://www.eidosinteractive.com/gss/legacy/imperial/synopsis.html looks interesting if only because it will have naval battles too. Graphic wise it looks REAL impressive but hey Im dying for Rome TW, this and Empire in Arms so :)




Zakhal -> RE: NTW (9/3/2004 12:56:19 PM)

Played 8 hours medieval tw sicilans/expert, conqured all of russian only to loose because my rulers had become homosexuals so they didnt make any offspring/have any heirs. I tried to get som princesses but not one nation accepted even though i had played mostly nice guy in the game. Never attacked anyone etc.




IronDuke_slith -> RE: NTW (9/4/2004 2:49:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucifuge

quote:

when/if someone mods RTW into Napoleonic Total War, i will dig a pit in the woods and hide there with my computer for a year. soooo sweet.


FYI there is a Napoleon era game coming out that is in Rome/Medieval Total War style called Imperial Glory http://www.eidosinteractive.com/gss/legacy/imperial/synopsis.html looks interesting if only because it will have naval battles too. Graphic wise it looks REAL impressive but hey Im dying for Rome TW, this and Empire in Arms so :)


This game looks really good. I haven't seen it before. I didn't see a release date, do we know when it is due?

Regards,
Ironduke




ravinhood -> RE: NTW (9/4/2004 3:59:57 AM)

In the Clear and Kind words of CA (the developers) "When It's Done"!

Heh, although speculation is running rampant that it's going to be around the 22nd of Sept. We'll see.




freeboy -> RE: NTW (9/4/2004 4:02:12 AM)

quote:

Played 8 hours medieval tw sicilans/expert, conqured all of russian only to loose because my rulers had become homosexuals so they didnt make any offspring/have any heirs. I tried to get som princesses but not one nation accepted even though i had played mostly nice guy in the game. Never attacked anyone etc.


I think there is a patch that gaurentees an heir after a certain amount of time, and the key to winning against the ia on the hardest level is trade, have ships in all oceans and maximize front forces while keeping smaller garrisons in rear areas all set to maximum taxes... I never get rebellions and often have so much money by mid game that I can by mercs pretty easily, granted against a human I cannot advise, but wouldn't mind a game sometime after BIN.. maybe Jan 05[:D]




Lucifuge -> RE: NTW (9/4/2004 4:21:26 AM)

quote:



This game looks really good. I haven't seen it before. I didn't see a release date, do we know when it is due?


FAQ says Q1 or Q2 2005 so still a bit away. Their FAQ is interestin since it seems a bit defensive on attempts to compare it to Rome/Medieval TW since they claim they were originally going to do a game based on Praetorians but guess decided a bit in that Napoleon era would be a better choice. They also claim their game will be deeper management wise then Rome's stated features...we'll see I guess :) Just found it odd a game's offical FAQ openly questioned/answered "hey this looks like a RTW rip off!" since never seen a company do that before.




nico71 -> RE: NTW (9/4/2004 8:03:03 PM)

Check this out!

http://www.totalwarcenter.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7829

A cool idea to turn RTW into a hardcore multiplayer wargame! I hope that some talented people are willing to make this idea reality one day!

quote:

I think that it's about time to be a little bit more specific. What I have in mind is a full map campaign with MANY players. How can this be done? There are certainly many ways to do it. I have an idea of one way to do it. This idea is certainly interesting for seasoned wargamers, but might not be suited for RTS-players. It would require some things that would have to be done first!

1. a new map! The game style that I have in mind requires a hex-map for turn-based PBEM. The map should cover all of Europe, Middle East and North Africa. This has been done before already in Century of Warfare with some 300x300 hexes, for example. I don't want to go too much into detail about hex size, turn length, etc.

2. a code that controls the main aspects of the game. The code should provide the save files for each player, sent out by the host of the game to the other players. Furthermore the code should do the necessary math that goes on in the background, so the players can concentrate on more interesting things.

3. a website along with a forum.

The game:

Regarding the game itself, it will be a classic wargame. The players have to manage their factions, trade, move their armies, supply them, do all that diplomacy stuff, etc.

I want the game to be independant from players. A long-time match would only last until the first player leaves. So it's important that new players can take over the faction when this happens. To make things more interesting, I would like to have two or more players within a faction (optional)! There's one faction leader, and there are his generals or whatever he want to use the other players for. Let's say, someone is good in managing his country, but is not that good on the battlefield, he can assign another player to fight the battles for him! In this way the faction leader doesn't even have to own RTW!

All players of a faction get the same savegame, but with their individual passwords they can only access the parts that they have been assigned to by the faction leader, i.e. only moving and managing the armies (or one of them), or an individual province of a faction along with its armies (tribes). The faction leader, OTOH, has no control over the parts he has delegated to other subordinate players. Those players can only report to the faction leader and the faction leader can only give orders to them. This makes civil wars possible if the faction leader loses control over his armies. Changing leaders would also mean a change of playing stlye and politics! This will keep things more interesting!

Furthermore if a faction leader dies in the game, one of his generals can take over. In this way generals can accelerate their own career if they manage to get the faction leader out of the way. However, to make it more difficult and to prevent total chaos, there should be a serious penalty for that (i.e. uprisings and/or a entry into the public player file).

However, the faction leader has the final say who becomes a general. He can refuse to accept other players in his game that he doesn't like for whatever reasons. He can play completely on his own if he wishes to do so. The purpose of the subordinate players is to make things more interesting for clans.

The turns:

As stated above, one host generates a savegames that goes to all faction leaders. Those can forward it to subordinate players that might play the same faction. All players can make their adjustments to their turn within the allowed limits set by the faction leader. This hierachy prevents problem of too many cooks, and the possibility that two players might try to change the same parameters within the game. When the subordinate players return the turn to the faction leader (after all real time battles have been fought), he sends the whole thing back to the host.

The host creates a combat replay and sends it back along with the new turn. All turns have to be sent back within a given time frame. If a subordinate player doesn't send his turn back in time, the faction leader can access his part and finish the turn with a master PW. If a faction leader doesn't send his turn back, the host might give a subordinate player (if available) or a new player total access to the faction in question and make him the new faction leader, again with a master PW. If everything else fails he might take control of that faction himself.

The armies:

I think it should be possible to build many more units than in RTW. Everything that is possible within the limits of the budget, manpower, etc. This makes huge wars possible. In one hex, however, there can only be as many units as RTW allows. Huge wars might require several battles within the same turn, all of them part of a much larger battle. This in return requires some operational movements of the armies into individual hexes in order to surround enemy armies, retreat or whatever!

The battlefields:

Each hex has an individual battlefield number of the TW game assigned to it that resembles the terrain on the 2D map. New maps can be created manually if needed with the editor.

The battles:

The battles are fought within RTW, according to the data that RTW receives by the 2D game. Unit types, strength, etc, buildings, and so on. So there's continuity between the 2D and 3D part of the game, just like the single player campaign. A turn can only be closed and sent back to the host when all battles have been fought.




To make all of this happen, it would need some talented people that can set up the code, etc. Such things have been done in other games already, so i think that it's doable. And RTW is not really a niche game.

Nevertheless I would like to hear others ideas as well. The more ideas, the more potential coders might be interested! And it doesn't matter if the final thing doesn't look even remotely close to what I have described above! The main purpose was to show that a mp campaign can be done without the help of CA. At least a turn based one. I think real time campaigns are more difficult to do.




ravinhood -> RE: NTW (9/4/2004 9:19:13 PM)

That type of multiplayer system would only be popular to a handful of dedicated (no life) players. The structure of all the TW's are setup where it just takes to long to play out a campaign, even a mini campaign like Vikings would take way to long multiplayer. It's been stated, it's not that CA can't do it, it's that it's not feasable to include such a multiplayer system in the Total War games because any system would just take to long for the "majority" of multiplayer types. No reason to make a multiplayer feature for a handful of individuals when they can put those "resources/dollars" into another game.

Spartan has the system in a 400+ turn game and only a handful of people play it multiplayer. Turn based strategy games that have 100's of turns just don't make it in online play. PBEM maybe, but, still very limited there. The average game time for an online game that would yield lots of online multiplayers would be 4 hours or less, something that could be done and finished on a Saturday afternoon.

I watched Civilization multiplayer die and Heroes of Might & Magic die, even Warlords III die, every turn based multiplayer game online I have seen disappear or have about 10 players or less, there's just not a major demand for turn based strategy multiplayer online or offline. Local Hotseat would be more popular than anything, possibly LAN coming in 2nd.

If any multiplayer system I would cast my vote for it would be PBEM, it's the one multiplayer feature that doesn't "require" any given time frame or limits. Perfect solution for turn based multiplayer gaming, just not games like the Total War series, either both concede to allow the AI to play their units or use quick calc and that pretty much defeats the Total War engine right there since the real time battles is the most important part of winning or losing. As a pure strategy quick calc game the Total War series would suck, it's not that great of a strategic game system to me.

Goto wargamer.com and look at the turn based multiplayer PBEM games people are interested in. Lot more than playing online ones. Plus one can have several PBEM games going at once of different types of games. PBEM rules. ;)




nico71 -> RE: NTW (9/4/2004 10:09:35 PM)

I find all of this pessimism astonishing! All the people there complain that there is no MP campaign. But if someone comes up with an idea that might actually work, the result is even more complaining! However, I fear that you are right! RTW attracts both RTS players and wargamers. And both factions have their own demands. And those demands contradict each others. I mean, I have seen people on the boards complain that they cannot build bases during the battles! YIKES!!! The idea above tries to get both factions together into one game. Long and realistic campaigns for the wargamers and many real time battles for the Age-of-Whatever crowd! Just in a global context! But yet.....the result is even more complaining!

I hope that this idea won't die due to a lack of interest even before it ever sees the light of day!




Deride -> RE: NTW (9/6/2004 5:27:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nico71
RTW attracts both RTS players and wargamers. And both factions have their own demands.


For Tin Soldiers: Alexander the Great, we felt the exact same pressure and tried to come up with something that would be of appeal to both types of players.

For RTS players, they typically want a fast paced game with a simple interface that allows them get into the game quickly. War gamers typically want maximum strategy and depth of details to simlute historical scenarios. So, most RTS games become the "fast food" of strategy gaming while "war games" remain very niche since they require patience and historical context.

With our game, we were hoping to build a very "accessible" game that RTS-like players could immediately jump into and start playing. But, under the covers, we have built a fairly complex battle engine that provides more "read meat" for serious strategy. We think we have built a game that fits a good medium between the genres... and will hopefully have some broad appeal.

Deride




ravinhood -> RE: NTW (9/8/2004 1:59:16 AM)

Personally, I'd rather see someone do RTW with the Combat Mission engine. Give your orders, and wait one minute before giving more. That should give the real feel of real time commands during the ancient time period, vs this RTS gimmick they have gone to the extreme on in RTW this time, it's so fast now it's not even like the other TW series, it's Extreme TW instead of RTW! lol

I guess all good things come to an end though. We got four pretty good games out of the TW engine before they ran off into the sunset with the RTS genre.

Now, we just gotta hope Battlefront doesn't do the same with their next series of game.
I'd like to see a lot of eras done with the Combat Mission engine. Kinda gettin tired of WWII though.




freeboy -> RE: NTW (9/8/2004 2:13:03 AM)

one minute is wwwqaaayy tooo sloowww , say that lowering your voice for full effect lol
Maybe ten minutes, a unit would take forever at 1 munite inteervals, the current medievil and rtw engines simulate rts by advancing the speed generously




ravinhood -> RE: NTW (9/8/2004 11:34:41 AM)

quote:

rtw engines simulate rts by advancing the speed generously


Generously is an understatement. I'd say EXTREMELY generous. ;)




freeboy -> RE: NTW (9/8/2004 5:39:02 PM)

But I still find both the overall turns and the rts very fun in Medeival total war




nico71 -> RE: NTW (9/8/2004 8:53:23 PM)

I would by no means consider the TW games wargames or even hardcore. They are relatively simple RTS-games. But yet they are fun, and definitely a must-have for me! Any level of additional realism would alienate the majority of players. I agree that a turn based or phased system a la Combat Mission would be better. I think the game that comes closest to this is any one of the games by Peter Turcan. Seeing some of the battles with 200.000 men in 3D like in Battalia with zero abstraction is awesome! This game has one major flaw, though: no multiplayer mode! If we'd have a game like this with a strategic campaign mode and multiplayer we would have a winner IMO! I don't know how close Tin Soldiers comes to this. There are some details in the gameplay of TS that aren't entirely clear to me! I will have to read more about it.




PYROS -> RE: Rome:Total War (9/9/2004 4:46:00 PM)

quote:

Hi:

There are other fantasy units I believe besides the "flaming pigs".



People,
"Flaming pigs" is not fantastic.
It was first used in ancient Greece as an effective counter elephant weapon.
It was the first anti-tank weapon...




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