RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (Full Version)

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Shark7 -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/20/2008 6:02:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

I don't know if this has ever been asked but do repairs take supply?  Some small number of repairs can be repairs quick and with no supplies.  However a majority will require welding rods at least.  Not to mention things like radar that has a shell hole through it.  If supply isn't used in WITP is it being looked at in AE?


Should it really use supplies or HI though? When you think about it, simple repairs take mainly manpower with a few items like rivets or welding rods and a new peice of armor plate. Replacing the boiler tubing...again is more manpower intensive than anything, and the parts would certainly have to be pre-made or machined on site. Engine replacement? Definately a job for HI to make the marine engines.

Another example is having weapon turrets or radar damage. Those have to be replaced with pre-manufactured units. Not something an AR can accomplish, you need major drydock and shipyard time. Sure you can replace a 20mm or 25mm fairly easily out in the middle of nowhere, but having to replace a 5"/38 turret is another matter entirely, one that would require some time in a large naval facility.

If anything, certain repairs should have to use certain facilities, and possibly HI points to accomplish. Maybe supplies for the minor repairs. But how complicated do we want to make it?



witpqs -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/20/2008 7:05:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

I don't know if this has ever been asked but do repairs take supply?


Yes - I don't recall how much.



bradfordkay -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/20/2008 10:09:18 PM)

"If anything, certain repairs should have to use certain facilities, and possibly HI points to accomplish. Maybe supplies for the minor repairs. But how complicated do we want to make it?"

AM I incorrect in the belief that if you have a destroyed weapons system on a ship it can only be repaired/replaced in a port with a shipyard?



Joe D. -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/21/2008 12:28:57 AM)

Does 1 repair = 1 less damage point?
Is there are priority for making repairs, i.e., fire > floatation > system damage?



Shark7 -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/21/2008 9:08:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"If anything, certain repairs should have to use certain facilities, and possibly HI points to accomplish. Maybe supplies for the minor repairs. But how complicated do we want to make it?"

AM I incorrect in the belief that if you have a destroyed weapons system on a ship it can only be repaired/replaced in a port with a shipyard?


I assume that is the way it is currently, since I always have to send ships there to get those items repaired.

I'm just wanting to know how complicated and involved people want the system to be.



wild_Willie2 -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/21/2008 10:44:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Does 1 repair = 1 less damage point?
Is there are priority for making repairs, i.e., fire > floatation > system damage?



Ships will always repair damage in this sequence: Fire, flooding, Sys.



herwin -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/21/2008 5:25:34 PM)

Port size is the only significant factor. Neither AR count nor presence of a naval HQ are significant at the 5% level. The significance level of AR count is about 18% and of HQ presence is about 70%. You need more samples.



rtrapasso -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/21/2008 5:51:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Does 1 repair = 1 less damage point?



If you are talking repair POINTS (from the repair yard)- then 1 repair point will fix 1 sys damage - for a 1 durability ship.

So, if you have (say) a 20 durability (DUR) ship, it takes 20 repair points to fix 1 sys.

There is also the possibility that the PORT (as opposed to the repair yard) can fix damage without using repair points... so on occasion you can get 2 sys repaired on the same ship on the same day - and it would cost only the DUR in repair points.



Dino -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/21/2008 8:38:42 PM)

IIRC, dtravel noticed a while ago (and I believe he was right) that repair points expended = ship durability + 20.

So, a repair yard will spend 30 points for a 10 dur ship and 140 points for a 120 dur ship.

If this is correct, it means that repairing small ships at repair yards is not cost effective...I usually send my DDs and smaller vessels to be repaired in bases with big port WITHOUT repair yards.




engineer -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/21/2008 9:55:30 PM)

One other trick that I've used some blunt prioritizing.  The yards will work on whatever is in harbor.  If you have some critically damaged ships (still with flotation and fire damage) while other ships have the damage under control (only sys damage), then I put the non-critically damaged ships in a TF and dock it at the port.  The available port resources are focused on the remaining critically damaged ships in harbor.  You can minimize additional system damage if you can put out the fires and stop flooding.  If you're really in a bad way, you can also "triage" your critically damaged ships by putting the ones you least mind losing in a TF and docking it at the port.   This is a clunky way of prioritizing the port resources. 



Knavey -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 2:46:48 AM)

Has anyone had damage repair itself when the ship was NOT disbanded?



VSWG -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 2:49:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

Has anyone had damage repair itself when the ship was NOT disbanded?

Sure. Sometimes ship even repair damage at sea.



engineer -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 3:09:46 AM)

Yes. 

Sys damage may repair at sea, but there is a limit where damage at 5 or less may not be repaired at sea.  This is on-board damage control and the Allies (or at least the USN) have an edge on the Japanese at this. 

Fire damage is routinely repaired at sea. 

Flotation damage is harder to repair at sea and badly damaged ships (flotation damage at 90 or more) often founder before getting to port (or are sitting ducks if you don't have control of the air). 



siRkid -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 3:53:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Actually both Kid and PzB have made some pretty shrewd guesses!
[:)]

Hmmmm.........[sm=innocent0001.gif]



Knavey -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 4:44:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: engineer

Yes. 

Sys damage may repair at sea, but there is a limit where damage at 5 or less may not be repaired at sea.  This is on-board damage control and the Allies (or at least the USN) have an edge on the Japanese at this. 

Fire damage is routinely repaired at sea. 

Flotation damage is harder to repair at sea and badly damaged ships (flotation damage at 90 or more) often founder before getting to port (or are sitting ducks if you don't have control of the air). 



Subs seem to be an exception to the floatation rule...I have had subs survive ASW attacks with 2-3 sys damage and 40-50 float...only to have them repair the float in a matter of days AT SEA and on the way back to port and so I turn them around and send them back to patrol.



Coach Z -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 4:51:49 AM)

I sent a carrier to a Large port (size 8) with over 400 accumulated repair points; it's the only ship there, with nearly 30k supply! The first day it drops 1 System damage point....I was so happy.....it’s been 11 days and nothing, NOTHING has changed![:@]
I thought she'd be out of action for maybe three months (including an upgrade); now its looking like four months at this rate!
{No Floyd I'm not telling you anything more}  [sm=00000436.gif]



Knavey -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 4:57:17 AM)

Just put that damaged CV in the port and forget about it for a while...a watched pot boils faster than a watched CV repairs.  [:D]



Apollo11 -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 11:11:53 AM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

It would be nice if someone patched up WitP as well [;)]



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

You know what I would like to see is? I would like to let the player spend the repair points as he see fit.



quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Actually both Kid and PzB have made some pretty shrewd guesses!
[:)]


Is that a HINT? [;)]

[&o][&o][&o]


Leo "Apollo11"



rtrapasso -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 4:32:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG


quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

Has anyone had damage repair itself when the ship was NOT disbanded?

Sure. Sometimes ship even repair damage at sea.



If left at sea and damage is >50, ships will self-repair... in fact, with larger ships, it is often repaired faster than if it sat at a major port with repair facility!! [X(] [8|] [:D]



rtrapasso -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 4:35:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Coach Z

I sent a carrier to a Large port (size 8) with over 400 accumulated repair points; it's the only ship there, with nearly 30k supply! The first day it drops 1 System damage point....I was so happy.....it’s been 11 days and nothing, NOTHING has changed![:@]
I thought she'd be out of action for maybe three months (including an upgrade); now its looking like four months at this rate!
{No Floyd I'm not telling you anything more} [sm=00000436.gif]


Sometimes the repair routine gets a stuck - it often helps to form the non-repairing ship into a TF and immediately disband it... this seems to "jog" the system into working... i once (years ago) had a BB go for 3 months with minimal repairs - tried this and it repaired about 4 points in the next weeks.

BTW - i calculated that it would have taken until 1956 for the ship to repair (from PH) at its original repair rate. [X(] [:D]



engineer -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/22/2008 6:34:06 PM)

quote:

Sometimes the repair routine gets a stuck - it often helps to form the non-repairing ship into a TF and immediately disband it... this seems to "jog" the system into working... i once (years ago) had a BB go for 3 months with minimal repairs - tried this and it repaired about 4 points in the next weeks.


I've seen the same thing. One other thing that I tried in conjunction with the TF trick was to switch out the captain with another officer with a high admin rating.  I can't say that the officer change had any effect or not, but it seems that "touching" the damaged ship in harbor gets her out of rut and back on track to repair. 



floydg -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (1/23/2008 1:36:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coach Z
{No Floyd I'm not telling you anything more}  [sm=00000436.gif]


Bah. I have three CV repairing. Or rather, barely repairing. So you have no sympathy from me.



Gormadoc -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/26/2008 2:30:37 AM)

Have anyone any idea how long it takes for Japan to repair a damaged torpedo tube on a sub. Assuming its in a port 8 or above with a repair shipyard and a Naval HQ. ?

I have had some subs sitting for months now. So any info on people's experience with reparing these systems would be very appreciated.

Starting to get to me, not knowing when they could be operational again, suffering from sleep deprivation from laying awake all night wondering if i am doing something wrong[:(]




castor troy -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/26/2008 9:51:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gormadoc

Have anyone any idea how long it takes for Japan to repair a damaged torpedo tube on a sub. Assuming its in a port 8 or above with a repair shipyard and a Naval HQ. ?

I have had some subs sitting for months now. So any info on people's experience with reparing these systems would be very appreciated.

Starting to get to me, not knowing when they could be operational again, suffering from sleep deprivation from laying awake all night wondering if i am doing something wrong[:(]





there´s a bug that shows the tube as damaged even though it has already repaired. The tubes should work fine. At least this is what people are saying.

Well, as I´m owner of a special copy of WITP it has never worked for me though. Not that the tubes are damaged and never work again, but I then see more than strange numbers of torps being launched and I also see very strange numbers of torps with the sub. Often it´s like this: If the sub has 4 forward and 4 rear tubes and one of the forward tubes is damaged, then it NEVER gets repaired in my games, but the sub launches 7!!!! torps in attacks then. So the 3 forward and 4 rear tubes together it seems. [8|] But like I said, this is what happens in my games and other people will tell you something different.



rtrapasso -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/26/2008 3:44:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gormadoc

Have anyone any idea how long it takes for Japan to repair a damaged torpedo tube on a sub. Assuming its in a port 8 or above with a repair shipyard and a Naval HQ. ?

I have had some subs sitting for months now. So any info on people's experience with reparing these systems would be very appreciated.

Starting to get to me, not knowing when they could be operational again, suffering from sleep deprivation from laying awake all night wondering if i am doing something wrong[:(]





there´s a bug that shows the tube as damaged even though it has already repaired. The tubes should work fine. At least this is what people are saying.

Well, as I´m owner of a special copy of WITP it has never worked for me though. Not that the tubes are damaged and never work again, but I then see more than strange numbers of torps being launched and I also see very strange numbers of torps with the sub. Often it´s like this: If the sub has 4 forward and 4 rear tubes and one of the forward tubes is damaged, then it NEVER gets repaired in my games, but the sub launches 7!!!! torps in attacks then. So the 3 forward and 4 rear tubes together it seems. [8|] But like I said, this is what happens in my games and other people will tell you something different.

Supposedly, if the tubes are REALLY fixed, the number of torpedoes being carried after the sub replenishes at the appropriately-sized port will be correct.

If there is an "odd" number of torpedoes - it implies the tubes are NOT fixed.



John Lansford -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/27/2008 3:27:49 AM)

Warning:  The shipyards WILL repair ships that are still in TF and are docked at a port!  I had a large number of subchasers sitting in San Francisco harbor when they got the "upgrade" damage.  Knowing that I had to get them out of the port so the shipyard would spend more productive time working on Saratoga, I put the SC's in a TF and docked them in the port.

A large # of the SC's repaired down below 5 SYS damage within a month, while Saratoga sat there, unrepaired.  Further tests on damaged submarines in a docked TF at Pearl Harbor confirmed this; if you have a docked TF at a harbor with a shipyard, the AI considers them candidates for shipyard repair just like the disbanded ships are and will repair them down below SYS 5 damage.

This means if you've got some major ships needing repair, you have to make sure no TF's show up and get docked there.  Fortunately you can load/unload a TF without docking it (makes no sense but that's how it works), but if you refuel them they will dock, so you've got to undock them immediately or risk losing a turn of repair.

As for AR's, I do not think they increase the effect of a large shipyard at all, which makes sense; they are floating machine shops capable of doing a lot of types of work, but a shipyard has a much greater capability to perform this same kind of work.  I put my AR's in large ports that don't have a shipyard and they tend to function as a poor man's shipyard, repairing SYS damage on small ships and eliminating flood damage.



Kull -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/27/2008 6:03:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Warning:  The shipyards WILL repair ships that are still in TF and are docked at a port!


True. This is the only way to keep the Japanese TF2 Replenishment Tankers from becoming too damaged. I park it in Tokyo Bay every now and then, and it repairs very quickly. This is the same reason that you can base "permanent" ASW TFs at large ports and they quickly repair all operational damage without ever having to disband the TF (same principal applies to permanent Minelayer TFs)

quote:

As for AR's, I do not think they increase the effect of a large shipyard at all, which makes sense; they are floating machine shops capable of doing a lot of types of work, but a shipyard has a much greater capability to perform this same kind of work.  I put my AR's in large ports that don't have a shipyard and they tend to function as a poor man's shipyard, repairing SYS damage on small ships and eliminating flood damage.


According to the manual (pg 183), "a repair ship may help four ships per turn repair (bonus equal to increasing the port size by one". Accordingly they should help at all but the largest ports, but it's hard to say for sure. I DO know that ARs are a godsend in helping to repair flotation damage at smaller ports. As was suggested earlier in the thread, it's a very good idea to base a few of these at size 3-4 ports near the scene of anticipated naval combat - it's frequently THE difference between a sunk ship and one that's been patched up enough to limp home.



Gormadoc -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/27/2008 2:07:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gormadoc

Have anyone any idea how long it takes for Japan to repair a damaged torpedo tube on a sub. Assuming its in a port 8 or above with a repair shipyard and a Naval HQ. ?

I have had some subs sitting for months now. So any info on people's experience with reparing these systems would be very appreciated.

Starting to get to me, not knowing when they could be operational again, suffering from sleep deprivation from laying awake all night wondering if i am doing something wrong[:(]

there´s a bug that shows the tube as damaged even though it has already repaired. The tubes should work fine. At least this is what people are saying.

Well, as I´m owner of a special copy of WITP it has never worked for me though. Not that the tubes are damaged and never work again, but I then see more than strange numbers of torps being launched and I also see very strange numbers of torps with the sub. Often it´s like this: If the sub has 4 forward and 4 rear tubes and one of the forward tubes is damaged, then it NEVER gets repaired in my games, but the sub launches 7!!!! torps in attacks then. So the 3 forward and 4 rear tubes together it seems. [8|] But like I said, this is what happens in my games and other people will tell you something different.

Supposedly, if the tubes are REALLY fixed, the number of torpedoes being carried after the sub replenishes at the appropriately-sized port will be correct.

If there is an "odd" number of torpedoes - it implies the tubes are NOT fixed.



So when i compare current substats with sub stats in ship database. I should just make sure theat "mount" and "ammo" numbers corresponds to database and ignore the red "x0" under number.

A thing i forgot to write is that the subs gets repaired to system damage 1. But i gues that do make sense if the game does not update torpedo tubes repair.

Ths for the help, i will try to send some of these subs on patrol and see what happens. Will be back with results.

Gormadoc



n01487477 -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/28/2008 12:47:09 PM)

This from the must read thread helped me alot:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1217165
I think it helps. From reading, repair rates are determined by Port Size, Repair Size, Naval HQ, AR's, luck ... The first two seem to be the most important... upgrade accordingly.

From my own observations, I do this:(IJN player)

1. Designate a rotation or port for ship types undergoing repairs.
So I have maybe 2 mid size ports/repair facilities doing AP/AK's, one for large damage, and another for smaller damage. I Rotate them. Some small ones for SS, and the others for capital ships.
2. Try not to have AK/AP/TK's loading and offloading at Ports where you want ships disbanded to repair quickly. Repairs seem to occur in smaller durability vessels more quickly that larger durability, and will gobble up those repair pts.
3. From point 2, vessels with large durability, I keep them repairing together, but as close to the ship repair yard capacity as possible.

Shipyard Repair uses Repair Points equal to the ship’s Durability +20. I.E., a DUR 5 DD will use 25 Repair Points, a DUR 120 CV will use 140. This is confirmed from actual play, the manual is incorrect on this point.
4. Each turn I try to keep an eye on the accumulated durability +20/ship Vs the Repair Yard capacity. So trying to keep ideally 1:1, but obviously looking below that is hard to achieve ... especially with upgrades.

[image]local://upfiles/19798/EE33268663E54A729B307DC69DC050DD.jpg[/image]

5. Keeping at least 20K supplies at those bases also seems to help me ...

Anyway just my 2c...

---Damian---



hvymtl13 -> RE: Observations on Ship Repairs (5/29/2008 7:11:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

Don't worry, PzB. I can assure you that ship repairs will be completely different in AE. [;)]


You just made my day. :)


I've seen where 2 carriers were hit, one sunk, one crippled and on the verge of sinking. Destroyers charged in at the enemy force, distracting it and sacrificing themselves to save the CV. End result- CV that was sunk, was rebuilt faster then the "saved" CV was repaired and an additional loss of 6-8 DD's. I'm not to thrilled with repair as it is currently. Thanks for the changes.



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