Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (Full Version)

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ago1000 -> Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/25/2004 7:46:13 AM)

Been looking through the old threads but couldn't find a reason for a recent surprise in Scen 17. I've just recieved 6 B-17E BS empty (they had been Disband/Withdrawn). I've included a picture. I guess the bombing of Rabaul will need to wait. Does anyone know why this has happened? [X(]

[image]local://upfiles/13464/If105731183.jpg[/image]



Lex Talionis -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/25/2004 1:22:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ago1000

Been looking through the old threads but couldn't find a reason for a recent surprise in Scen 17. I've just recieved 6 B-17E BS empty (they had been Disband/Withdrawn). I've included a picture. I guess the bombing of Rabaul will need to wait. Does anyone know why this has happened? [X(]


Hi ago1000

Its probably because you have no planes in the replacement aircraft pool to fill the squadrons out with. IIRC you only get 6 B17E replacement aircraft a month. Looks like you've been carrying out an intensive bombing campaign and losing more aircraft than are being replaced. Hence why you disbanded/withdrew your BS in the first place, to get rid of understrength sqns and make up complete ones.

Happened to me in my first game before I realised, takes 4 months just to fill up the 4 B17E Sqns you start with!

You need to really take care of your B17's and only fly them when:
1> morale is at 99 (or near as damn it)
2> fatigue is at zero (or near as damn it)
and
3> the weather is clear, or partly cloudy at worst.

Other than those conditions, KEEP THEM GROUNDED AND RESTING!!![:-]

Happy bombing campaign.[:)]

Lex



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/25/2004 7:12:15 PM)

Well you disbanded this unit (if you only withdrew them, pilots will still be with the unit) and then had not enough bombers to build a new squadron. So it returns as an empty unit(administrative staff only) to Noumea. Nothing strange at all, it happens all the time with planes with low replacement rate.

You can wait forever that the unit is usable again or withdraw it as soon as possible again (so forgetting the 28th BS) or use it as a depot unit. You B-17E reinforcements will all go to this unit, as it has the lowest number on theater (probably) and then you can disband the squadron and choose another squadron that will then receive more planes and crews than by normal reinforcement, while other squadrons will receive fewer planes in the same time.

If you use B-17E intensively, especially before the first reinforcements in September 1942, it is rather classic to see squadrons being "wiped out" by losses and not being able to rebuild them.



crsutton -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/25/2004 9:42:36 PM)

B17 and Liberators are one of the most potent forces in the Allied arsenal. Best to pick and choose when to use them. Used in mass, they can simply close a base down in no time. However, they are slow to replace so repeated use will eat them up. As said before use them in optimal conditions and use them when they are really going to have an impact. I never use B17s for nuisance or small raids. I wait for the time and moment and then slam the heck out of the place I want to attack.

If your opponent is foolish enough to park carriers and cruisers in a port within-even long range of yourheavy bombers-a massed heavy attack on the port will cure him of that for good.



neuromancer -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/25/2004 11:52:37 PM)

I'm not quite as stingy as all that with my B17s (99 morale and 0 fatigue) because then they will never fly at all. A weapon you are too scared to use because you might lose it, may as well be lost.

However the basic premise is true, wait for decent weather (Thunderstorms and Rain are probably best avoided), definitely stand them down if they exceed 30 fatigue, and also if they are below 50 morale (really, 60 is preferable, but as I said, I'm not that stingy). They also seem to be more survivable in large groups.

Also, it is a good idea to make sure they are operating from decent sized fields (4 is the minimum for heavy bombers, but I think they suffer less Op losses from larger fields), and also have plenty of Aviation Support crews for them.

Partially you can get away with this because the Zero (in this game) has a tough time shooting up the B17. But also remember to keep them at a decent height to avoid AA (I vary altitude from as low as 10 or 12 K, to up in the low to mid 20 K range). Using them for Naval Attack is a waste of time.

On these principles I've only lost 10 in 4 months (Scen 17), which is good seeing as you only start to get replacements for them in Sept. '42. I've only disbanded one group that probably only started out with 5 or 6 planes, and was down to probably 3.



Lex Talionis -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/26/2004 1:01:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

I'm not quite as stingy as all that with my B17s (99 morale and 0 fatigue) because then they will never fly at all. A weapon you are too scared to use because you might lose it, may as well be lost.


Hi neuromancer

I'm not too stingy or scared to use them, I follow the approach as advocated by crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
B17 and Liberators are one of the most potent forces in the Allied arsenal. Best to pick and choose when to use them. Used in mass, they can simply close a base down in no time. However, they are slow to replace so repeated use will eat them up. As said before use them in optimal conditions and use them when they are really going to have an impact. I never use B17s for nuisance or small raids. I wait for the time and moment and then slam the heck out of the place I want to attack.


1> they are one of the most potent forces,
2> its best to pick and choose when to use them,
3> use them en masse as they can close a base down, don't use them for small or nuisance raids,
4> use them in optimal conditions and smack the bejesus out of the base you intend, preferably without alerting them to the fact your coming,
and
5> don't be routine, let them fatigue and wear out there CAP for when you next attack. A massive attack will destroy their morale and take them forever to build up again. Let the Japanese worry about where you're next going to strike as they know they can't stop you.
6> the only thing thats going to destroy your offensive heavy bomber campaign is excessive ops losses that annihalate your mighty bomber force.
so
7> treat them with paternal care and they will reward your efforts with amazing results.

Regards

Lex



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/26/2004 5:01:18 PM)

Don't underestimate the light bombers either, Hudson and Bueaforts out of Pm make a real mess of any shipping with in range. You get lots of Mitchel and Marauder squadrens as well, i use these extensively out of Lunga to hit Shortland munga ect when i am resting the B17 and B24's a 100 bomber mitchel raid will still make a mess[;)].

I find it best to rest the first few B17 goups you get until they are up to strenght 10-12 units they use them against lightly defended targets like Gili Gili to build up there exprience. As said above be aware of weather, fatigue and moral.[:-]



Blitzer -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (8/27/2004 4:58:50 AM)

In addition to what you've mentioned, I've found that setting bombers to ASW is a great way to build experience without incurring heavy losses.



Tuli Vapaa -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (9/10/2004 9:26:42 PM)

Here's a tip. Deploy your B-17's in northern Australia and set them to 100% naval search/ 6000 ft. Leave them there. After a month or so, you have accurate picture of EVERY IJN convoy moving around New Guinea. After two months, every day one or more enemy ships gets 500 lb bomb on it's deck. After three months, most shipping sunk will have 500 lb bomb hole in it, your B-17's have almost full strength and 40+ pilots/sqd with almost 90 experience. And casaulties are 1-4 planes total (operational, enemy action not included).



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (9/13/2004 12:10:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuli Vapaa

Here's a tip. Deploy your B-17's in northern Australia and set them to 100% naval search/ 6000 ft. Leave them there. After a month or so, you have accurate picture of EVERY IJN convoy moving around New Guinea. After two months, every day one or more enemy ships gets 500 lb bomb on it's deck. After three months, most shipping sunk will have 500 lb bomb hole in it, your B-17's have almost full strength and 40+ pilots/sqd with almost 90 experience. And casaulties are 1-4 planes total (operational, enemy action not included).


Thats just plain nasty![:-]
[:'(][:D]



Tuli Vapaa -> RE: Yikes! Now I'm completely lost. (9/13/2004 3:37:29 AM)

I can't help it. Tactic of Naval Search is so effective, that I don't bother using my 4-engines as bombers any more. They can make much more damage by attacking enemy shipping. I just cheked my AI- test game, in it I have 146 B-17's, avarage experience is around 90, squadrons have about 40 pilots and fatigue is extremely low, as they rotate pilots, so some rest and others fly.

Best squadron has 63 pilots, 12 planes and experience of 89. Fatique is 3 and they have been flying nonstop from day one. I estimate, that this single squdron has sunk aroun 10-15 AP's, got hits on about 5 warships and laid waste on whole herds of barges. Total IJN loses on 500 lb bomb is about 160 ships (not all from 4-engines, but I use B-25's and B-26's solely on anti-airbase role, so it doesn't leave many plane types to drop those bombs).

Get this tactic running against your PBEM-opponenet and 'Nasty' is about nicest thing you hear from him.



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