AT guns crew (Full Version)

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El_Peco -> AT guns crew (2/13/2002 10:07:00 PM)

My question is about AT guns, I wonder because these weapons haven't a secondary weapon slot, nothing much powerful, but something like rifles.
It seems logic that the crew can fire the at gun and then some bullets with their personal weapon, like mg and infantry AT (panzerfaust & bazooka)do.
I saw that some scenarios has this feature and so I wonder why it isn't in the "regular" game.
Finally I read that in version 7 the "price" of AT gun was increased, so it would be great to have artillery men that can fire at approaching infantry with their rifles. Regards.



john g -> (2/13/2002 10:19:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by El_Peco:
My question is about AT guns, I wonder because these weapons haven't a secondary weapon slot, nothing much powerful, but something like rifles.
It seems logic that the crew can fire the at gun and then some bullets with their personal weapon, like mg and infantry AT (panzerfaust & bazooka)do.
I saw that some scenarios has this feature and so I wonder why it isn't in the "regular" game.
Finally I read that in version 7 the "price" of AT gun was increased, so it would be great to have artillery men that can fire at approaching infantry with their rifles. Regards.
Back with v1.0 through about 4.x they did have, some of us complained about a crew served weapon that was able to keep up a terrific rate of fire and still have the crew find time to grab their rifles and fire off a few pot shots as well. The secondary weapons were removed about v4.5. The crew still gets their misc weapons when they abandon, so if you need some local firepower, do an F9 and abandon the gun to use the crew to shoot inf weapons. Then recrew the weapon. It works for me, and I consider it a much better way of working out the fire.
thanks, John.



El_Peco -> (2/13/2002 10:44:00 PM)

Thanks John for fast reply.
I understand the problem of an excessive rate of fire.
However I'm not sure that a german 88mm with 8 members crew can't fire some bullets!
But the matrix guys have to do some choices and when choices are made there is someone happy and someone that complains . Regards.



tracer -> (2/13/2002 10:52:00 PM)

I did notice one 'double duty' weapon remains: the Russian 76.2mmFG (the one available in 1/42, not the *FH* available in 1930). The FG acts as an indirect fire weapon, but it has respectable fire control and comes with a supply of AP and HEAT rounds.



Jeff_Ewing -> (2/14/2002 12:37:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by john g:
Back with v1.0 through about 4.x they did have, some of us complained about a crew served weapon that was able to keep up a terrific rate of fire and still have the crew find time to grab their rifles and fire off a few pot shots as well. The secondary weapons were removed about v4.5. The crew still gets their misc weapons when they abandon, so if you need some local firepower, do an F9 and abandon the gun to use the crew to shoot inf weapons. Then recrew the weapon. It works for me, and I consider it a much better way of working out the fire.
thanks, John.
I'm totally down with this, but I wonder if they should have grenades for close work? I recently read McDonald's _Company Commander_ (ISBN: 1580800386) and he complains that the 57mm ATG crew in his area throws grenades at any noise at night -- a risk to his troops. Jeff



Nikademus -> (2/14/2002 12:44:00 AM)

Actually i believe the secondary weapons were removed more to enhance the AI than the arguments that a harried fast working gun crew would'nt have time to fire rifles (though this was also a valid complaint) an AT gun's greatest weapon is it's "Stealth" ability, i.e. they are hard to spot, especially by their prey of choice, AFV's. AT guns have been greatly enhanced in the game thanks to the WAW OP fire and spotting rules making them the formidable weapons they could be in a SP game for the first time. (i still remember their pathetic preformances in SP-1 and 2) As such most good human players will turn off the secondary weapon in order to help preserve the weapon's hidden status. The AI however is not clever enough to turn specific weapons off and will always fire the secondary weapon even if the target is an AFV or a soft target but one at range vs close up. A good move in MHO (since i am forced to play against the AI most of the time) AT guns are even more of a pain now for me now that my chances for spotting the dang things has been halved by the AI no longer firing useless rifles at me



Voriax -> (2/15/2002 3:19:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by El_Peco:

However I'm not sure that a german 88mm with 8 members crew can't fire some bullets!
Hello 8 crew members isn't that many. 2 men are needed for aiming, one for horizontal and one for vertical control. Then you need one man who will insert new ammunition and close the action. And to keep up a respectable rate of fire you need 2-3 men to pass ammo to the loader. Then you need at least one man to keep an eye on surroundings and to spot targets. Preferably more than 1 man, come to think of it. So after all there are no extra men who could amuse themselves with some rifle shooting. Voriax



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