Why aircrafts don't reload ammo during a game? (Full Version)

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adantas -> Why aircrafts don't reload ammo during a game? (2/15/2002 7:03:00 PM)

Hi folks, Well I'm not sure if someone already asked this but I'd like to know why aircrafts don't reload ammo in SPWAW???
Seems strange to me that after a sortie in close support the planes return to the airfield and not reload their payload.. bombs, rockets, machineguns..
I'm not sure if it's possible to simulate this of course but if it's possible i think that would be a nice feature to the game. I 'd like to hear some impressions about this. Alessandro
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AC -> (2/15/2002 7:17:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by adantas:
Hi folks, Well I'm not sure if someone already asked this but I'd like to know why aircrafts don't reload ammo in SPWAW???
Seems strange to me that after a sortie in close support the planes return to the airfield and not reload their payload.. bombs, rockets, machineguns..
I'm not sure if it's possible to simulate this of course but if it's possible i think that would be a nice feature to the game. I 'd like to hear some impressions about this. Alessandro
--------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Adantas, I think it's a matter of time. If a turn of SPWAW
lasts a couple of minutes, a 20 turn scenario is about an hour long. Now, immagine a plane coming in, strafing and bombing even on the first turns, than go back to the airbase, land, refuel, reload, take off again and come back... I'm sure this would last much more than an hour, of course. AC



mogami -> (2/15/2002 7:41:00 PM)

Hi, AC is correct. Even a 50 turn SPWaW battle is too short a time to turn an aircraft around (refuel reload fly back to battle) If your Japanese on Guadalcanal that Zero flying in support has too return to Rabaul (600+ miles rearm and refuel and then return)(8 hours would be pushing it) British planes in France 1940 have much the same problem as do...well everybody airfields even forward airfields tend to be 100 miles from the action.



adantas -> (2/15/2002 8:10:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mogami:
Hi, AC is correct. Even a 50 turn SPWaW battle is too short a time to turn an aircraft around (refuel reload fly back to battle) If your Japanese on Guadalcanal that Zero flying in support has too return to Rabaul (600+ miles rearm and refuel and then return)(8 hours would be pushing it) British planes in France 1940 have much the same problem as do...well everybody airfields even forward airfields tend to be 100 miles from the action.
Hi mates, thanks for reply..well, of course this make sense but if we think in Normandy after the D-day for exemple, the allies had some airfields very close to the front and the time to rearm and refuel was very short so they could keep the pressure over Rommel's troops with many sorties during the day and the same with the Americans at Henderson field
but considering the length of 30 turns' game I agree with you.
so I'll change my question a little:
would be possible to simulate this for a scenario for exemple?? Thank you all Alessandro
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Senta à Pua!!!



AC -> (2/15/2002 8:47:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by adantas:
Hi mates, thanks for reply..well, of course this make sense but if we think in Normandy after the D-day for exemple, the allies had some airfields very close to the front and the time to rearm and refuel was very short so they could keep the pressure over Rommel's troops with many sorties during the day and the same with the Americans at Henderson field
but considering the length of 30 turns' game I agree with you.
so I'll change my question a little:
would be possible to simulate this for a scenario for exemple?? Thank you all Alessandro
--------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Surely, you only have to have the right number of airplanes available in the artillery/aircraft selection screen.
But be also aware of the fact that the SPWaW player (= up to a batallion commander) in real life won't have any decision rights on the aircraft available. So , even if you're on Guadalcanal or fighting in Normandy with lots of airpower neraby, some higher commands decide how many of the fighters available you will have. You're not alone: all around you there would be many other commanders like you asking for support.
This could IMHO also be another reason of aircraft not coming back for a second run: you are assigned a number of sorties but not the aircrafts. AC



AC -> (2/15/2002 8:50:00 PM)

Forgot one important thing: SPWaw allows you to do whatever you want: want lots of aircraft to punish the enemy? Do a scenario or a battle and buy 'em. Want something more near real life? Do it.
This is one of the outstanding features of SPWaW, IMHO: give you the possibility to do what you like! AC



M4Jess -> (2/15/2002 8:58:00 PM)

Not really, the only thing I can think of is to turn Ammo off, but when you do this the bombing run grows alot, ie, 2 bombs 1 hex becomes 6 bombs 3 hexs...durning play test of Japan 46 1 Jap plane took out an entire platoon in one run...
those poor airborne troops did not stand a chance! M4



Resisti -> (2/15/2002 9:04:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by adantas:
[QB]
Hi mates, thanks for reply..well, of course this make sense but if we think in Normandy after the D-day for exemple, the allies had some airfields very close to the front and the time to rearm and refuel was very short so they could keep the pressure over Rommel's troops with many sorties during the day and the same with the Americans at Henderson field
but considering the length of 30 turns' game I agree with you.
so I'll change my question a little:
would be possible to simulate this for a scenario for exemple??
[QB]

I've not tried this, so this is just a guess..
This being said, i think the only way MAYBE you can portray this is, while editing the scenario, to increase the # of ammos the plane(s) is/are provided with, so that they dont use them up all at once, but will have for extra strafing.
The only way that i know spwaw engine allows units to be reloaded when they have no ammo left is to use ammo dumps/ammo trucks, which I honestly dont think it fits with planes



Tomanbeg -> (2/16/2002 12:07:00 AM)

On most Allied fighter plane of the WWII era, the ammo for the wing guns was loaded into built in boxes in the wing. You could not switch out a box like they do nowdays. Each belt of ammo had to be loaded into a gun, which could take as long as 5 minutes per gun. The way the covers over the boxes were arranged, you could not put 1 man on each gun. Petrol was hand pumped during the early part of the war. I believe in Townsend's Bio and history of the battle of Britian, he got a 20 minute turn around once by not having the guns reloaded. And Townsend was a super star ace, who got preferential treatment.
The IX air force provided the Third army with the best air support of WWII. They used a 'cab rank' system that WaW does an excellent job of portraying. Jabo's would take off in 4 plane flights and the orbit their assigned sectors above the range of small bore AA. Then when they were needed they were minutes if not seconds away. The flights would take off 15 minutes apart so there was a constant stream of Fighter-Bombers entering the FEBA. When they dropped their load they would fly back to base and rearm. So each fighter could fly several sorties. I think a group had 3 squadrons of 24 at this time( I have seen 16, 18 24 and 48, so I'm not sure what the actual TO&E called for). So you are talking about 72 planes making 200+ sorties over an area 50 Km's long and 5 to 10 Km's wide. It's easy to understand why the germans had a healthy fear of Jabos.
T.



ruxius -> (2/16/2002 5:28:00 PM)

Obviously all these good reasons stands untill
SPWAW will not be extended to larger battlefields and longer battle lenghts...say a battalion level...but I think SPWAW will arrive to make cohexist the two levels so some limits due to turn lenght and other may be overcome...



adantas -> (2/16/2002 6:58:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by M4:
Not really, the only thing I can think of is to turn Ammo off, but when you do this the bombing run grows alot, ie, 2 bombs 1 hex becomes 6 bombs 3 hexs...durning play test of Japan 46 1 Jap plane took out an entire platoon in one run...
those poor airborne troops did not stand a chance! M4
Hey mate, Could you detail a little bit your tests??
I didn't get "Turn ammo off"..are you talking about the primary weapons? ..turn off maghineguns and cannons??? Alessandro --------------
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adantas -> (2/16/2002 7:01:00 PM)

Hi folks, we had very good points here!!
thank you all for comments
Alessandro --------------
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Truckeye -> (2/16/2002 8:57:00 PM)

something i would like, and more realistic than recraft replenishment is off board artillery resupply. is there a way to buy an off board ammo dump?



Voriax -> (2/16/2002 10:13:00 PM)

Alessandro, have you considered purchasing several planes of same type and for example allowing only 2 appear initially. Then another 2 would appear as reinforcements say, 12 turns later..and so on. Assuming player uses his air strikes early in the game this would simulate reload/refuel..in a way. Voriax



adantas -> (2/17/2002 12:29:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Voriax:
Alessandro, have you considered purchasing several planes of same type and for example allowing only 2 appear initially. Then another 2 would appear as reinforcements say, 12 turns later..and so on. Assuming player uses his air strikes early in the game this would simulate reload/refuel..in a way. Voriax
Voriax, Yes, that's could be a way to simulate this of course but I think this way would "work" only for AI, a human player would see them as reinforcements arriving later to the battle thanks mate. Alessandro --------------
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adantas -> (2/17/2002 12:32:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Truckeye:
something i would like, and more realistic than recraft replenishment is off board artillery resupply. is there a way to buy an off board ammo dump?
Well, this one could be nice also but I think the same concept of length fits here . Alessandro --------------
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