LV Victories elusive (Full Version)

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Tiger -> LV Victories elusive (2/19/2002 2:08:00 AM)

Is anyone else experiencing the same level of frustration I have with the campaign?? The experience so far can be summed up with one word..humbling. I am getting my *** literally handed to me on a consistent basis. I'm not an expert by any stretch, I just keep ending up with draws and an occasional MV. Perhaps my tactics are fundamentally flawed, who knows?? Anyone else find they begin talking to themselves and cursing the computer screen much more often during this campaign?? Thanks for the opportunity to vent, I'll feel better until I hit the campaign trail again this weekend.



Larry Holt -> (2/19/2002 2:16:00 AM)

How far into the game are you? I've only played the first 5 or so scenarios and found DVs possible. How about the breakout scenario where you have to go up against KVs for the first time.
DVs are very possible here. In general Soviet tanks will kill you if they hit but they have poor gunnery and usually miss. Try knocking out light tanks at long range. Separate heavy tanks and infantry then when the tanks are close in, kill them with flank/rear shots. In reality the GE had problems dealing with all but the lightest SO tanks. GE inf got massacred when confronted with even one heavy tank according to my sources. They did what I just mentioned. Also the SO were about as good as the AI. They made frontal attacks instead of flanking, etc.



Gary Tatro -> (2/19/2002 3:11:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger:
Is anyone else experiencing the same level of frustration I have with the campaign?? The experience so far can be summed up with one word..humbling. I am getting my *** literally handed to me on a consistent basis. I'm not an expert by any stretch, I just keep ending up with draws and an occasional MV. Perhaps my tactics are fundamentally flawed, who knows?? Anyone else find they begin talking to themselves and cursing the computer screen much more often during this campaign?? Thanks for the opportunity to vent, I'll feel better until I hit the campaign trail again this weekend.
I have found the campaign very entertaining. The first time I played I recieved a combination of DV, MV and Draws. I restarted the campaign after getting bogged down in the Piquet Marshes and have been able to get MV and DV on all the senarios so far. I am now currently at the Stalin Line. A couple of quick tactics. First in each senario you have to be conservative with your tank ammo. Expecially with your Tank J's. These are the only tanks that have APPC Ammo that can penatrate the armor of KV-1 and KV-2. What I have found is that your other tanks can destroy all of the lighter tanks at range up to 25 hexs and your J's will not fire there APPC ammo beyond hex 10. To be effective you have to get withing 3-4 hexs of the KV-1 & KV-2 to destroy them even the APPC ammo. Otherwise the shots bounces off. Getting that close can be very difficult. Use your terrain and be patient. Second it is important to look at all of your tanks to see what kind of ammo they have. Many of your smaller tanks will have a limited amounts of AP and APPC. Once this is gone you have to resort to HE which does not penetrate armor well. Third in a tank battle lead with your Stug's they have the best armor and will ussually survive 5-6 shots on there front armor. Forth many times you can manipulate tank battles with smoke. Have your artillery fire a smoke barrage and then move up to only one hex away from the smoke. On your next turn move one hex and than start to blast away at the target that you have the highest percentage to hit and whose armor is low enough so that your tank will be able to penetrate. Then move one hex back into the smoke to block line of sight. This can also be done with woods, hills, houses. The object here is to never leave your tanks out in the open where the enemy can blast away at you. If you have run out of APPC ammo the best alternative it to use two or three infantry units to assault the heavy tanks. You will either get lucky and destroy it of after about 4-5 assualts the tank crew is so suppressed they bail out and you can then destroy them with machine gun fire. Try to be more conservative and patient. I found the times that I get beat up the most is when I try to push ahead to fast. I now tend to pop smoke and move all units up to the point of contact and then dismount and end my turn. The next turn I will move my infantry forward and engage the enemy. This is slower but I have much better results. This allows you to consentrate fire power and to hit the area ahead of you with artilary fire. Lastly be very conservative with your recon units. These are probably your best infantry killing units. They have good spoting and have high mobility. Once an enemy infantry has retreated move your mobil recon unit in and overrun them to oblivion. Oh yes did I mention be conservative. I hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy. Griffin



Larry Holt -> (2/19/2002 3:17:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Griffin:
...If you have run out of APPC ammo the best alternative it to use two or three infantry units to assault the heavy tanks. You will either get lucky and destroy it of after about 4-5 assualts the tank crew is so suppressed they bail out and you can then destroy them with machine gun fire. Try to be more conservative and patient....

I have noted that the AIP crews have NEVER bailed for me. Its VERY frustrating when I hit a tank or fortification with 3 -4 assaults for several turns in a row and the target just sits there. In reality they would be shell shocked, bleeding ear drums, etc. I have found that the turn limits can force me to not be as conserative as I would want to be. I realize that a sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you to slow down but going too slow can lead to running out of time near the end and having to speed up just then.



FNG -> (2/19/2002 4:41:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger:
Is anyone else experiencing the same level of frustration I have with the campaign?? The experience so far can be summed up with one word..humbling. I am getting my *** literally handed to me on a consistent basis. I'm not an expert by any stretch, I just keep ending up with draws and an occasional MV. Perhaps my tactics are fundamentally flawed, who knows?? Anyone else find they begin talking to themselves and cursing the computer screen much more often during this campaign?? Thanks for the opportunity to vent, I'll feel better until I hit the campaign trail again this weekend.
I've been mauled a few times, but generally speaking, if you concentrate your forces and engage the Soviets in detail, you should be able to pull off MVs most of the time. That said, I have walked away with a few draws which I was pleased to get! I seem to have come most unstuck when I have allowed myself to 'wander' from my orginal plan and have spread my units too thinly and/or had poor recon. I have done best when I have managed to bring all my units into action (e.g. placing Flak and IGs where they can support infantry). Nil desperandum!



peter hellman -> (2/19/2002 4:59:00 PM)

I have noticed that, surprise surprise, it is very hard to knock out the haavy tanks. But the way I have had it done, I have shot a lot from quite long range with all kind of tanks I have, also I've pounded them with my 2cm Flak, 37 mm ATG's and 75 mm direct artillery. Usually the crews have bailed in some turns, then I cut them down. The first time I engaged the heavies, most of the tanks were abandoned. If they are not abandoned, they usually get immobilized, then I close in with some PzIII, try to get in behind, and finish it off. I also use infantry on buttoned tanks. I have had a good time with the game, I'm currently at the Pursuit-scenario at Dubno. 5 battles have ended up with DV's, one draw, one MV. It seems, that when I take my time, I usually not take the last VH's until the very last turns.
But I suppose it will get harder all the time. So, don't rush I think.



skukko -> (2/19/2002 5:05:00 PM)

Hi Save your games guys. Play 'till game stops by loop or crash, after that waite LV-Patch#1 and new mech. I am truly sorry to say this but we have stretched game to levels that it starts to scream for mercy and because of this we have worked patch for LV. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Real life tactics work on and in Lost victories. This was very investigated issue while LV was designed. mosh
Team Cpt
LostVictories



Tiger -> (2/22/2002 4:50:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Griffin:
I have found the campaign very entertaining. The first time I played I recieved a combination of DV, MV and Draws. I restarted the campaign after getting bogged down in the Piquet Marshes and have been able to get MV and DV on all the senarios so far. I am now currently at the Stalin Line. A couple of quick tactics. First in each senario you have to be conservative with your tank ammo. Expecially with your Tank J's. These are the only tanks that have APPC Ammo that can penatrate the armor of KV-1 and KV-2. What I have found is that your other tanks can destroy all of the lighter tanks at range up to 25 hexs and your J's will not fire there APPC ammo beyond hex 10. To be effective you have to get withing 3-4 hexs of the KV-1 & KV-2 to destroy them even the APPC ammo. Otherwise the shots bounces off. Getting that close can be very difficult. Use your terrain and be patient. Second it is important to look at all of your tanks to see what kind of ammo they have. Many of your smaller tanks will have a limited amounts of AP and APPC. Once this is gone you have to resort to HE which does not penetrate armor well. Third in a tank battle lead with your Stug's they have the best armor and will ussually survive 5-6 shots on there front armor. Forth many times you can manipulate tank battles with smoke. Have your artillery fire a smoke barrage and then move up to only one hex away from the smoke. On your next turn move one hex and than start to blast away at the target that you have the highest percentage to hit and whose armor is low enough so that your tank will be able to penetrate. Then move one hex back into the smoke to block line of sight. This can also be done with woods, hills, houses. The object here is to never leave your tanks out in the open where the enemy can blast away at you. If you have run out of APPC ammo the best alternative it to use two or three infantry units to assault the heavy tanks. You will either get lucky and destroy it of after about 4-5 assualts the tank crew is so suppressed they bail out and you can then destroy them with machine gun fire. Try to be more conservative and patient. I found the times that I get beat up the most is when I try to push ahead to fast. I now tend to pop smoke and move all units up to the point of contact and then dismount and end my turn. The next turn I will move my infantry forward and engage the enemy. This is slower but I have much better results. This allows you to consentrate fire power and to hit the area ahead of you with artilary fire. Lastly be very conservative with your recon units. These are probably your best infantry killing units. They have good spoting and have high mobility. Once an enemy infantry has retreated move your mobil recon unit in and overrun them to oblivion. Oh yes did I mention be conservative. I hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy. Griffin
Appreciate all of the feedback, guys. I'm in the marshes now, for those of you further into the campaign. I estimate I'm about 10-12 scenarios into it by now. I just earned a moderate victory last weekend, sorry I can't remember the scenario. I do recall it required a sweep of the forests. I completed sweeps and came out on my left flank, supporting the engr.'s and armor I had defending a crossroads. T-28's accompanied by SO mg squads came from the North. BT-7's and ?? across a bridge to my Southeast. My armor was positioned perfectly on the heights above the roadway, along with 2cm flak, 37mm, and 7.5 cm's guns. I annihilated the armor, but the scenario ended before I could capture all of the VH. I think a large part of my problem has been the early draws forced me into tough situations. I found myself, at least 3 times, in scenarios requiring me to split my attack, not concentrating my attack but being forced into a 2 or 3 pronged attack.
Now I'm forced into a defensive position. Not sure what to expect, but I expect a LOT of armor. Well, wish me luck!!



Supervisor -> (2/22/2002 6:10:00 AM)

Well as you all know by now it's going through a restructuring, on top of that we've included a few fixes in the SPWAW game engine (mech.exe file) such as better results from colateral damage and a reworked armor formula that will only improve on this. Hand gernades that actually damage and kill, as Mosh and many of the other developers/testers of LV have found we think you like the changes to the game. An easy way to compare it is, it plays alot like 5.1 did, faster and more concise.



Bing -> (2/22/2002 8:38:00 AM)

How can I be frustrated, when it is only the third battle and I have an Opel Blitz with two kills? The driver pretty obviously got his training in Chicago - as a taxi cab driver. I do not know if these are "road kills" or kills with the pistoli. Either would be suitable, if the background was Chicago.The projects - on a Saturday night - would be wonderful combat training. Bing



Larry Holt -> (2/23/2002 12:31:00 AM)

I have noticed some supicious victory levels. I replayed the Stalin line in arcade mode. I killed all enemy units, took all VHs, lost one truck and a few infantry killed and got a DRAW! Huh? I have read other posts to this effect too. I hope that the patch addresses this.



Tiger -> (2/23/2002 1:02:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
I have noticed some supicious victory levels. I replayed the Stalin line in arcade mode. I killed all enemy units, took all VHs, lost one truck and a few infantry killed and got a DRAW! Huh? I have read other posts to this effect too. I hope that the patch addresses this.
I was a bit puzzled with a MV in my last scenario. The briefing stated that capturing VH's was not as important as eliminating enemy forces. I still captured 3 of 5 hexes, wiped out 2 armored columns, and was a bit surprised by the result. Granted, at times my development is a tad slow, but I feel if I try to speed the pace I have to expose my more valuable units (read: armor) to assault, or fire from gun emplacements, etc.. Here's hoping the patch comes soon....



skukko -> (2/23/2002 2:09:00 AM)

Well, from where do I start ? First of all; All scenarios (+250) have had decisive victory from tester before it is approved. There is some that are later edited to be near impossible to win, but that is due to historical essence. Second: Don't get cought into word that says you have a 'draw'. Some AARs do say quite nasty words of it, but don't take it personally. It is way for your commanders to say that more were required than what result was, also after very succesfully done work. They got higher people above who are saying same things to them. As a game -score draw is not fatal. It will allow you to play alot, with victories you'll get there faster and you have more from where to choose of. With losses you also get there, but it is not recommended way, its too hard and full of unpleasant suprises. Some of the battles are kind of *must* to win, -to avoid early end of campaign. But draws like Holts (mentioned above) are something that there should not be. But there is. It is not just because of bad design, (Stalin lines for example were tested many times), -it is also depending of OOBs. In early designed scenarios we had 4.5, then 5.01, -and they had unit cost for russians higher than later OOBs. This is one reason out of basic Lost Victories. Second reason, might even be 'The' reason is that points per killed unit is calculated differently in later updates. We did re-tests with early 7th beta and all was ok. We had *soft promise* that there ain't big changes coming in either mech or OOBs according to gaméplay and units. Ok, game is now better itself, but MCs got messed a bit ... But we are working on these problems and after we have gone thru and solved them according to LV, we have a winner in our hands. Anyway there is still work on that, so be patient, - its worth of it I am saying this because I think you should have information of where we are with this game and why. My apologies only if you take this wrong, you are great people all and as a team captain of Lost Victories I feel I owe you at least little explanation mosh



Larry Holt -> (2/23/2002 2:30:00 AM)

Mosh, thanks for the reply



Tiger -> (2/23/2002 2:56:00 AM)

Really appreciate your response. I feel much better. I love this game, and have played it almost exclusively. Don't fear, I was NOT going to let this campaign get the better of me. I haven't suffered a loss in a scenario yet!!



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