Motorized infantry problems! (Full Version)

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Svennemir -> Motorized infantry problems! (2/19/2002 10:46:00 AM)

I'm currently playing a PBEM game with Soviet Motorized forces. The trucks aren't meant for combat, so I would want them to pull back in cover - at least in certain situations. Now is the problem that each and every truck takes orders. My infantry "0" units cannot order them all back, and thus they are likely to get destroyed. Some of them are even out of contact and therefore "stuck" in open terrain - cannot be pulled back because no radio contact is available. I would *really* like to see trucks included in platoons separately from the infantry. The trucks are not meant for fighting, and must therefore be pulled back when it gets too hot. Only the ability to set a different target hex for the trucks and the inantry will help here. If the truck platoons are separated, they don't have to leech orders from the infantry, and that will solve all the problems. As I see it, no other solution will be acceptable - motorized forces will be useless with the trucks being in the same platoons as the infantry. Just more large, immobile, unarmoured targets which cost buy points.



Redleg -> (2/19/2002 12:33:00 PM)

I wish you and several others had been available when I pleaded that case. When you have some of the less-gifted Nation's forces, it is even more of a problem. One thing I do is purchase regular infantry and platoons of trucks for them later. In most cases, there isn't much difference between leg infantry and motorized. It is a way to duck the problem of orders if you play C/C turned on.



Alexandra -> (2/19/2002 9:10:00 PM)

You can do this yourself, though admitted, it does take deply time. Here's how. Take all your trucks and assign them to one unit - the A0 works, or you can buy an extra FO or heck, even a sniper, to be the 'transport company commander.' During deploy, get everything where you want it, unloaded, then click on each truck, and click on the change command button and then on the desired commander, then load. What you'll have is all the trucks under one commander - keep him safe, and them in contact, and with one fell swoop you can order your trucks back. Alex



challenge -> (2/20/2002 12:21:00 AM)

As independent platoons, vehicles would provide C&C points for themselves and go directly to the GHQ for additional orders. Putting them under a single commander reduces the C&C points available as well as making all vehicles dependent on a single Objective hex. GE Mot Infantry has trucks seperate from the Infantry Platoons. This is good thing. I also manage to get vehicles for Art, AT and the like by buying them seperately, just after the formation being transported. Some of those I rearrange (A Plt of four vehicles, and a section of 2, will make two 3-vehicle platoons to transport mortar tubes and crews.) I suppose you could put them anywhere... The Battalion would have a motor pool, as would each company. All the equipment lists show them. The GE Mech Inf has HTs in the platoons with infantry, but scince they're recon units, that doesn't matter. When I took MoT Inf instead of PzG Inf, I learned the joys of trucks in seperate units. Now all my FOs are on foot and I purchase seperate vehicles for them, and for the snipers. They drive out close to where the enemy is suspected and drop the passenger. If the car gets hit, the FO bales; a motorized FO would have been destroyed. I can carry a MG team and smaller AT an Inf Guns with the vehicles as well. They aren't tied to a specific commander so I can use them anywhere, and all the vehicle formations have an in-house commander if a change of direction is required. [ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Challenge ]



panda124c -> (2/20/2002 1:03:00 AM)

It looks like the best solution would be to have a company that has the 1st Platoon Infantry then the 2nd Trucks, then the 3rd Infantry, then the 4th Trucks and so on. This would give the truck Platoons the required orders and still organize the company in a rational manner. Give the CO his own Truck being the only exception to the rule. Motorized Platoons could be organized the same way with one Platoon of Infantry and one of Trucks.



challenge -> (2/20/2002 2:33:00 AM)

The GE Mot Inf Organization is: Co HQ
Med Truck Plt
Inf
Inf
Inf
Spt Gun
Med Truck
Spt Gun
Med Truck
Med Truck
Hvy Truck A bit odd, really, workable. Having the vehicles after the rest of the Company is just as easy, except during deployment, maybe.



Svennemir -> (2/20/2002 8:35:00 AM)

Thanks for the suggestions. The easiest way is of course as suggested by Redleg - might use that in the future. Alexandra: witty but takes too long time! I don't care so much about how the trucks were attached to companies/plts in real life - this is about getting the game to work in a realistic way, and that might take a bit of "unrealistic" modelling. But I must say that after having tested different v7.1 OOBs I'm not sure at all that the trucks have NOT been removed from the platoons - I might be complaining about a non-existant problem!



swagman -> (2/20/2002 12:34:00 PM)

I think the approach depends on what you want to achieve. Redleg's approach is excellent if you want to transport your leg infantry company with trucks. If you actually want a historical motorised company you have to do more, since the trucks won't be under C&C of the company commander and you will be missing the AT/IG included in the motorised company…and if you delete the infantry AT and purchase the guns, then they too will be outside the company C&C. If your aim is to play a game with a motorised company, I suggest the following:
· Purchase the company and a one vehicle unit like a kubelwagen, then transfer all trucks to the kubelwagen then delete the whole unit…now you have a motorised company without trucks…purchase four platoons of trucks and off you go;
· This may not work, since I can't recall if the AT/IG gun sections and their truck sections are separate…if they are, then transfer trucks to the gun sections to transport the tubes…this will leave a number of trucks sections within the company, so transfer trucks from the infantry platoons to increase the sections to four trucks each…if there aren't three truck sections at this point (one for each infantry platoon), it will be necessary to add trucks to the company commander to make up the third truck platoon…as the CO and his truck are both recon, these can run around, while using the unit objective flag to direct the trucks. If you have to play with mixed platoons of trucks and infantry, what you do is set the platoon objective one hex BEFORE where you wish to drop your infantry. Move your trucks one hex beyond the objective…the direction of advance will then reverse…since it is drawn from the unit location through the objective hex…unload your infantry and withdraw your trucks at no order cost along the unit of advance…change the platoon objective forward, and your infantry will then be able to march forward, leaving your trucks behind. You will only be able to gradually withdraw your trucks further as orders permit, but given they are far enough back to be out of harms way, this shouldn't be critical…of course, to stop your trucks being shot from a distance, you can use the 9 key to bail out the crew…you can keep them beside the trucks until it is safe to move them, then move the crews back onto the abandon trucks so they reboard.



Larry Holt -> (2/20/2002 10:17:00 PM)

In combat the Soviets DID drive their motorized infantry into German guns and they suffered for it. Depending upon how you are playing, you can turn C&C off long enough to move the trucks back then turn it back on again. This seems to be a limitation of the SPWaW game engine. I am sure that the CL team will be taking this into account.



panda124c -> (2/22/2002 8:06:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
In combat the Soviets DID drive their motorized infantry into German guns and they suffered for it. Depending upon how you are playing, you can turn C&C off long enough to move the trucks back then turn it back on again. This seems to be a limitation of the SPWaW game engine. I am sure that the CL team will be taking this into account.

Larry have you watched how the AI handels the Italians against the Americans. It runs the infantry carring trucks as fast at it can as far forward as possible. Then when they get shot at or spotted they dump the infantry and run away. Very bold Italians, but it works. Very excelent in low visibility. Tends to get them where they are going 'firstest with the mostest'.



Larry Holt -> (2/23/2002 12:11:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by pbear:

Larry have you watched how the AI handels the Italians against the Americans. It runs the infantry carring trucks as fast at it can as far forward as possible. Then when they get shot at or spotted they dump the infantry and run away. Very bold Italians, but it works. Very excelent in low visibility. Tends to get them where they are going 'firstest with the mostest'.

I know the AIP does this for other armies as well. I can take advantage of this and fire at long or short range depending upon how I want to fight the infantry. This may seem strange or unrealistic to some but as you point out it has benefits and so is probably the best AI programming that can be done.



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