1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (Full Version)

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thebeis -> 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 5:28:47 AM)

Hello,
1943 Campaign. Version 1.21. Game started after patching.
At Anchorage, I received 3 partial air units VBF-13/1, /2. /3. these units all came in with 9 planes and zero pilots. They now have 9 planes 4 or 5 pilots each and 25 planes in reserve. There is no button to rebuild unit. There are no other VBF-13 sub-units that I can find on the map or in the replacement que.

Any ideas?



Mr.Frag -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 6:25:13 PM)

Join them up with their main body.

Either load them on a ship, or move the main body to them.



thebeis -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 7:13:31 PM)

Mr. Frag,
Thanks.... That is what I would do if I could find the "main body" or the "parent" unit.

No other VBF-13 exists on the map or in the replacement que.

Also the same problem now exists at Pearl Harbor. There are three partial VBF units there that are doing the same thing. They don't have any "main body' or "parent" units either.



PeteG662 -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 7:21:19 PM)

would a withdraw or disband work here to get rid of a few or is the aircraft capacity an issue? I know that only partially cures it since they are still separated from the "parent" unit.



Mr.Frag -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 7:59:59 PM)

quote:

Also the same problem now exists at Pearl Harbor. There are three partial VBF units there that are doing the same thing. They don't have any "main body' or "parent" units either.


So there is no main group without the /# ?

Thats a problem [:(]

Send me the save please.



PeteG662 -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 8:30:09 PM)

This could happen if multiple transports were transporting the unit in pieces and the one with the "parent" unit was sunk, correct?



Mr.Frag -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 8:55:59 PM)

quote:

This could happen if multiple transports were transporting the unit in pieces and the one with the "parent" unit was sunk, correct?


No, when this happens, the remaining part should become the "parent" unit. If it does not happen, you end up with a vanishing unit (units that unload then disappear as soon as the unload has completed)

There *MUST* be a parent unit at ALL times for everything on the map.

The bugs around this generally come from the election process not getting called when a parent dies in a new and strange manner.



Chris21wen -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 9:36:54 PM)

The parent could be already loaded on a transport. I've noticed the LCU loaded don't appear on the full LCU list, but i'm not sure about air units.



Mr.Frag -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 9:57:16 PM)

Just checked ... Air Unit parents when loaded on an AK will show up in the List all naval aircraft report.

The fragments being at a Land base will show up on the List all land aircraft report.



Chris21wen -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 10:43:07 PM)

Thanks. Might be a good idea to do that with the LCUs.



Mr.Frag -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 10:48:15 PM)

Good point ... but that list be long! [:D]



Chris21wen -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 11:06:43 PM)

Sure is but then there's filters.



Mr.Frag -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/10/2004 11:13:50 PM)

quote:

Sure is but then there's filters.


Already added to the list of *stuff* [;)]



kayjay -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 3:30:26 PM)

This is needed often times a LCU/3 peice is left and its parent on a Transport and you have to cycle thru all troop carrying TFs to find where to send the fragment, or wait till parent arrives and appears on land unit list.



thebeis -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 5:27:01 PM)

Hello again,

Some further information.

I was paying close attention to and I noticed that a statement similar too:"36 Hellcat aircraft arrive at Pearl Harbor"

During my next turn lo and behold. Another VF-XX/1 squadron of 36 Hellcats had appeared at Pearl with out a parent unit anywhere else on the map.

This new squadron had zero pilots and 36 Hellcats.

So I guess these partial squadrons without parent units are truly replacement aircraft that are meant to be disbanded/withdrawn into existing squadrons. Notice however that they are carrier trained and this makes it very hard to disband/withdraw them.


However, the upgrade now buttons are not active and in 8/44 there are no more SBD units on the map. Thus the VBF-XX/1 squadron of 9 aircraft with 125 in reserve will never be used. No way to make them active.



Twotribes -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 5:55:42 PM)

Have you checked your carriers?



kayjay -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 6:45:13 PM)

Replacement sqn always have an 'R" in their name and never seem go have a parent. GIve them a few days and the pilots will show up.



Captain Cruft -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 6:55:32 PM)

VF and VBF are carrier groups, like TwoTribes said ... Are there any Essex's stuck out in the middle of the ocean?



Chris21wen -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 9:58:34 PM)

Strange I'm playing scenario12, 1943 and I've just had 3 SBD air units turn up in Lunga. VBF 10/1, VBF 15/1 and VBF 8/1 each containing 36 planes. I've not lost any carriers in the game, I checked all the carriers and there are no parents.



Chris21wen -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 10:35:56 PM)

I've just checked scenario 12 database through the editor. All three SBD air units are shown as belong to the Enterprise (VBF 10), Essex (VBF-15), and Bunker Hill (VBF 8). All the carriers are on the map undamaged with a full compliment of aircraft (36 x VF, 36 x VB and 18 x VT) If you add the other air units each carrier would have 126 A/C on it?

Seem to be a problem with the database.



thebeis -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/13/2004 10:50:43 PM)

Hello again,
I checked for the ship that had the VBF-13 on it. It was an Essex class but I forget which one. (At work).

Found the carrier and VBF-13 was listed as VB-13. Not VBF-13 as I would expect.

Strange.....



Caranorn -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/14/2004 12:31:06 AM)

US carrier groups are supposed to change in 1944 or so IIRC. But I don't recall for sure how (it's in an appendix at teh end of the manual). I think you should end up with a VF, VBF, VB and VT or something like that. Maybe this is a bug related to that change of organisation.

In any case, you should be able to identify the parent units as USN squadron numbers are usually based on the pennant number of their carrier (I probably have a list somewhere if needed, though it should be obvious from the in game OOB).

I wonder whether the Essex replacement carriers aren't messing up OOB's too. (That's one weird rule, I will have to compare the WitP OOB for CV's, CA's and CL's with historic constructions some time, hadn't payed any attention to that yet).

Marc aka Caran...



thebeis -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/14/2004 3:34:43 AM)

Hello again,
Here is still more information.

VBF-1 is listed in the data base for the Yorktown(Essex Class)
On the Yorktown is VB-1. (Not VBF-1)
VBF-1 is unit ID 2415 which is not in the data base.

VBF-18 is listed in the data base for the Intepid.
The Intrepid has VB-18, not VBF-18.

Same for VBF-13 and the Franklin with VB-13.

The unit IDs for the problem squadrons are:
2415 (VBF-1/2)
2411 (VBF-18/1)
2412 (VBF-1/1)
2417 (VBF-13/1)
None are in the database so these units resulted from something else.



pry -> RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems (9/14/2004 1:25:07 PM)

What is the game date? and does any one have a save of this the turn before the 1st group of replacements arrive, just from reading this thread is seems that *maybe* the 1/45 carrier air group change is kicking in early (none of the VBF squadrons are supposed to arrive before 1/45 change)

slots above 2400 are reserved for the computers use, Ie: divided groups and sub units (replacements)

Please send save to pry-witp@houston.rr.com

Thanks

[Edit] After digging deeper into this. there is a data base issue with scenario 12 and the VFB groups and will fix that part.

I still need a save to figure why they are coming into the game early.



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