How is this for an exciting moment

How is this for an exciting moment (Full Version)

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RevRick -> How is this for an exciting moment (9/16/2004 4:21:10 AM)
A friend of mine sent me this one. I had to pass it on. It's called "Wrong Button" [image]local://upfiles/1228/Yw690753156.jpg[/image]

Xargun -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/16/2004 4:22:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RevRick A friend of mine sent me this one. I had to pass it on. I must assume thats a live missile laying on the flight deck.... Did the pilot fire it ? Xargun

RevRick -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 4:28:47 AM)
Got the second shot - and it is.. umhh .. illuminating [image]local://upfiles/1228/Jh156831342.jpg[/image]

byron13 -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 4:32:12 AM)
I'm no military pilot, but I'd have to believe he pushed more than one wrong button. I would guess that they're not supposed to be in an air-to-air mode until after launch. Bet he's not flying anymore.

dtravel -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 4:37:17 AM)
I suspect the only one who did the right thing there was that flight deck crewman. [:D] "Oh, SH**!!!!!"

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 4:49:08 AM)
Isn't that how Forrestal went up?

Tankerace -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 4:51:34 AM)
Guys guys guys.... It's just an example of budget cuts. They can't affor to fly, so they fire the missiles in training while still on the deck. As to the Forrestal, IIRC it was a large AP bomb that went thud on the deck. Don't think it was a missile.

Feinder -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 5:22:06 AM)
Byron, while I would be surprised, "something" probably malfunctioned with the missile, and it cooked off on it's own. The pilot probably then just jettisoned it. -F-

Tankerace -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 5:51:42 AM)
Jettisioned it saying "Please GOd, don't kill the Admiral, please God don't kill the Admiral". or "How am I gonna dress this up on the ol' performance review."

mogami -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 6:14:06 AM)
Hi The "Forrest Fire" was started when Zuni missile was connected to aircraft while stray voltage was in circuit. Is that a AIM-9? Since to launch normaly you need a lock and a second command I'd say the rocket motor just went off for what ever reason not a pilot pushing a wrong button. Normal lauch is you aquire a target and hold down a key. When missle aquires target it squeals to let you know and you then "pull the trigger" to fire.

mogami -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 6:20:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mogami Hi The "Forrest Fire" was started when Zuni missile was connected to aircraft while stray voltage was in circuit. Is that a AIM-9? Since to launch normaly you need a lock and a second command I'd say the rocket motor just went off for what ever reason not a pilot pushing a wrong button. Normal launch is you aquire a target and hold down a key. When missle aquires target it squeals to let you know and you then "pull the trigger" to fire.

Tankerace -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 6:21:29 AM)
Hey Mogami, when did you and Mr. Frag become moderators? Or am I just blind. Congrats!

mogami -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 6:27:08 AM)
Hi, Yeow I just noticed that as well. Beware my power now.

Tankerace -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 6:27:53 AM)
Uh-oh.... lol.

Twotribes -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 6:40:51 AM)
The most likely thing that happened is that as the aircraft was arrested and trapped on landing the missile broke free of its mount. If it had fired no camera man would have had time, at the speed it travels, to take 2 pictures of it traveling the deck.

kew -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 6:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twotribes The most likely thing that happened is that as the aircraft was arrested and trapped on landing the missile broke free of its mount. If it had fired no camera man would have had time, at the speed it travels, to take 2 pictures of it traveling the deck. Good point, does not look as though there has been any iginition of the missle. No smoke at all.

MadmanRick -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/16/2004 6:54:26 AM)
quote: I must assume thats a live missile laying on the flight deck Appears to be a live 'Winder to me, iirc the navy uses blue (as does the USAF) to mark a training round. So it should either have a blue body or blue bands on it to signify that it is inert. I can see no such markings. Also being that close to the A/C, if the rocket had ignited it would be readily appearent. This seems to me to be a missle that broke loose when the A/C arrested. Also, I don't think that a picture that clear would have been possible if the rocket motor had ignited. Although I suppose these could be frames from a video feed? Rick

Barlock -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/16/2004 11:39:57 AM)
I've seen and heard the story of that shot before but I'm not sure of the accuracy... Anyway, what I'd heard IIRC is that the Hornet tried to fire the missile in-flight but the missile was somehow jammed on its rail and didn't fire. When the Hornet landed back on deck the force of the landing shook the missile free of its rail. Once off the rail (since it had already been armed) it activated as normal and shot down the deck and over the side. [X(] Also - for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, combat aircraft have a weight on wheels sensor that inhibits the master arm switch - preventing pilots from triggering ordinance while on the ground. Of course, switches do sometimes go bad or get disabled for whatever reason.... [:-]

CoffeeMug -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 12:34:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mogami Is that a AIM-9? Since to launch normaly you need a lock and a second command I'd say the rocket motor just went off for what ever reason not a pilot pushing a wrong button. Normal lauch is you aquire a target and hold down a key. When missle aquires target it squeals to let you know and you then "pull the trigger" to fire. Hi, actually, you dont need to lock on the target. You can fire the missile without locking, shouting MADDOG (brevity) over comms, so every friendly knows whats happening. [:)] The missile then homes on the hottest target (the sidewinder is a IR missile) within sensor gimbal limits. Cheers, Coffeemug, old (v) viper driver on Falcon 4 SP4 BMS2 [8D]

strawbuk -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 1:56:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tankerace Guys guys guys.... It's just an example of budget cuts. They can't affor to fly, so they fire the missiles in training while still on the deck. Check lates UK defence cuts - we don't even have the missile for training (we have a simulator: the pilot leans out cockpit and throws a pepr dart).

Rhino WSO -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 3:18:29 PM)
Hey, a topic a can provide insight on (as I'm still working out the kinks in playing WITP)... I'm a Weapons System Officer (backseater) in a Super Hornet and that IS a live missile (AIM-9) that came off the rail when the jet trapped. I've seen other pictures of this mishap before and we use them to stress the importance of good ordnance handling with our "Ordies" (weapon loaders). BTW, you cannot shoot a Sidewinder without a lock and "Maddog" is a term for only active Radar missiles (AMRAAM). You also cannot launch/release weapons with weight on wheels (like what Barlock said). Now back to learning how my predecessors did it... [:)]

CoffeeMug -> RE: Nope, it's not laying on the deck. (9/16/2004 5:06:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rhino WSO "Maddog" is a term for only active Radar missiles (AMRAAM). Ok, copy that. [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: Rhino WSO BTW, you cannot shoot a Sidewinder without a lock and Well, after you uncaged the seeker head, the diamond will track the hottest IR source in your HUD, not? So, you dont have to have a RADAR lock IMO. Fox Two. Cheers, Coffeemug

sprior -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/16/2004 9:28:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadmanRick quote: I must assume thats a live missile laying on the flight deck Appears to be a live 'Winder to me, iirc the navy uses blue (as does the USAF) to mark a training round. So it should either have a blue body or blue bands on it to signify that it is inert. I can see no such markings. Also being that close to the A/C, if the rocket had ignited it would be readily appearent. This seems to me to be a missle that broke loose when the A/C arrested. Also, I don't think that a picture that clear would have been possible if the rocket motor had ignited. Although I suppose these could be frames from a video feed? Rick The colour markings are standard NATO: the gold band is for HE (the warhead) and the brown indicates low explosive, the propellant. Black is AP, white is smoke, blue is an exercise or drill round, I forget the rest...

hithere -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/16/2004 10:36:40 PM)
i am no expert but these are stills from a video that has been floating around the web for a while...consumption juction used to have it....it was fired...when the link was sent to me it had the whole story (it was in the e-mail, not sure how credible)...either way...the video clearly shows the missle firing and then shooting off the flight deck...

Desertdaddy -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/17/2004 2:29:12 AM)
As someone who has spent a fair amount of time on a flight deck/flight line and around ordnance (going on 18 years), you�d be amazed at what can happen when a plane traps. The most likely scenario is that the pilot tried to fire the missile in flight, for whatever reason it did not leave the rail and became jammed (or �Hung� in EOD terminology). The pilot landed very fast; as is the norm on a flight deck. The sudden deceleration caused the missile to come lose. The missile not wanting to stop (a object in motion wants to stay in motion); slid off the rail, down the flight deck, and into the sea. The missile motor did not fire. When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it. Over the years I�ve seen stuff fall off jets all the time. Seeing the countermeasure flares eject 5 feet before touchdown on a dark night is really cool.[8D] A few corrections to the earlier posts: The �Forrest Fire� was indeed started by a Zuni; a 5� Zuni rocket, not missile. Missiles have guidance rockets do not. A Yellow, not gold, band around the warhead denotes high explosives. Cheers, Desertdaddy

strawbuk -> Conspiracy theory (9/17/2004 11:59:18 AM)
Hmm... 1 - so someone just happend to be videoing the landing did they? Standard practice to help training? Or deck crew do it just in case they can make �50 off 'USN's Craziest Videos' show? Hmm 2 - missile not fired we agree, so flew off when ac arrrested? So a. why fins not bent by hitting deck b. why going in straight line, despite being in contact with deck (too low speed for fins to have effect?), Hmm 3 why in second shot is front of missile now off the deck? Again , not fired so why moving fast enough to 'fly' . I know those boys land fast but not THAT fast. Hmm 4 'When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it.' so not gone off. But just enough 'smoke' in picture to suggest a fired missile to uninformed - where is that smoke coming from so convienently from tail pipe? Hmm 5 - expert opinion/advice please - if arresting, where is wire/hook? Would still be in shot if missile just 'jerked off'? Hmm 6 - the really paranoid may wish to start assessing the relationship of the ac and missile shadows (but I may be pushing that). BOGUS!

Xargun -> RE: Conspiracy theory (9/18/2004 12:02:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strawbuk Hmm... 1 - so someone just happend to be videoing the landing did they? Standard practice to help training? Or deck crew do it just in case they can make �50 off 'USN's Craziest Videos' show? Hmm 2 - missile not fired we agree, so flew off when ac arrrested? So a. why fins not bent by hitting deck b. why going in straight line, despite being in contact with deck (too low speed for fins to have effect?), Hmm 3 why in second shot is front of missile now off the deck? Again , not fired so why moving fast enough to 'fly' . I know those boys land fast but not THAT fast. Hmm 4 'When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it.' so not gone off. But just enough 'smoke' in picture to suggest a fired missile to uninformed - where is that smoke coming from so convienently from tail pipe? Hmm 5 - expert opinion/advice please - if arresting, where is wire/hook? Would still be in shot if missile just 'jerked off'? Hmm 6 - the really paranoid may wish to start assessing the relationship of the ac and missile shadows (but I may be pushing that). BOGUS! I have no naval or aircraft experience but as an engineer I can tell you that when you stop a plane on the arrester gear there is a LOT of enegy there... take its speed times is weight and that will give you a good idea... Now the missile breaks free.... Take the speed of plane times the weight of the missile and thats how much energy the missile has... The arrester gear stops the plane and absorbs the energy... but the missile flies forward and hits the deck... The only thing absorbing its energy is friction and I bet its not enough to stop that missile (moving at 150+ mph) from flying off the end of the flight deck. As for photographing landings, perhaps they were doing ratings on all pilots that day and rating their landings or who knows... Maybe they film all landings with digital cameras. That would have no real cost and provide endless means of better training for landings... As for arresting, you cannot see the back half of the plane where the hook and wire would be... As for the smoke you see coming off the back of the missile, it could be heat buildup from the friction with the deck.. Not sure what the fins are made off, but it should be something fairly durable (aluminum ?) which would smoke real fast at the speeds the missile would be travelling... As for why the missile goes in a straight line... Why not ? the fines are stablized and should be fairly even and the flight deck is even, so what would cause it to swerve ? Like I said I am not knowledgable in military matters like this, but it seems completely feasible in physics terms for this to happen... Xargun

tanker4145 -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/18/2004 1:26:30 AM)
I can tell you from experience that dropped ordinance can smoke without going off. We were moving some captured rockets and mortar rounds out of our company base in Iraq when someone dropped one as they were loading it on a HEMMET (or whatever the acronym for those damn things), it started smoking and everyone did their best impression of an Olympic sprinter. After about 5 minutes it quit smoking and we waited another hour and got back to work, so that could explain the smoke, but just a guess.

Desertdaddy -> RE: Conspiracy theory (9/18/2004 1:46:25 AM)
Thanks X, a much better response then I could ever have typed up. quote: ORIGINAL: strawbuk Hmm... 1 - so someone just happend to be videoing the landing did they? Standard practice to help training? Or deck crew do it just in case they can make �50 off 'USN's Craziest Videos' show? Each service has a Rating/MOS or Specialty Code for combat camera. It�s that person�s job to take pictures of everything that happens. That�s where much of the more mundane pictures of military operations come from. The press will show you all the sensational and gory bits about war, A combat camera man/person will take pictures of the mechanic fixing a flat tire, the cook serving food (after the VIP has left) or the combat team taking enemy fire. They take pictures for history not headlines Hmm 2 - missile not fired we agree, so flew off when ac arrrested? So a. why fins not bent by hitting deck b. why going in straight line, despite being in contact with deck (too low speed for fins to have effect?), The sidewinder missile in the pictures might look small (compared to an ICBM) but it�s really a fairly stout well-constructed weapon system. Check out this web page for lots of pictures of sidewinders: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/aim-9-pics.htm Hmm 3 why in second shot is front of missile now off the deck? Again , not fired so why moving fast enough to 'fly' . I know those boys land fast but not THAT fast. See X's post about speed and physics Hmm 4 'When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it.' so not gone off. But just enough 'smoke' in picture to suggest a fired missile to uninformed - where is that smoke coming from so convienently from tail pipe? Check out the web page indicated about, it has cool photo of sidewinder just after being fired from a F/A-18, cool flames Hmm 5 - expert opinion/advice please - if arresting, where is wire/hook? Would still be in shot if missile just 'jerked off'? A tail hook is at the rear of the plane. The rear of the plane is not fully in frame. Expert on tail hooks not needed for this one. Hmm 6 - the really paranoid may wish to start assessing the relationship of the ac and missile shadows (but I may be pushing that). The shadows look like the sun is high in the sky, perhaps midday or a few hours either side of noon on first picture. Second picture shadow looks about the same. I�m by no means a weatherman, astronomer, astrologer (or what ever a person who studies the sun is called), but I am a sun worshiper (I love the beach). BOGUS! Oh well...

timtom -> RE: How is this for an exciting moment (9/18/2004 1:56:02 AM)
quote: We were moving some captured rockets and mortar rounds out of our company base in Iraq when someone dropped one as they were loading it on a HEMMET (or whatever the acronym for those damn things), it started smoking and everyone did their best impression of an Olympic sprinter. LOL [:D] ...Hmm, well, I guess it's not funny, really.

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