So, how are your games going? (Full Version)

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Erik Rutins -> So, how are your games going? (9/18/2004 9:55:13 PM)

I know there are a lot of copies out there since yesterday - have you finished any scenarios yet? How are things going? Any favorite new features or battles yet?

Regards,

- Erik



Capitaine -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/18/2004 10:23:37 PM)

I started out playing the "Overlord" scn as the allies [:'(] and it is really tough going at around turn 6. I mean it's a war of inches. I'm trying to exploit open areas where Jerry is thin, but I keep outrunning my vestigal supply network. Very tough.

It's my third stab, having restarted twice after learning nuances that materially change the game in the amphibious area. Finally have a feel for what matters in amphib. landings.



2gaulle -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/18/2004 11:00:14 PM)

I have redo many time the 3 first turn as allied



Capitaine -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/18/2004 11:33:49 PM)

Finally managed to punch into Carentan on turn 7, and then the dreaded Mud hits, and everything's gotten real slow. Best actual progress is in the East toward Cherbourg. Brits completely stymied as they are facing tons of SS and Panzertruppen.

Not many units getting K.O.'d in my game, mainly damaged. I pull mine back, but some of the German 2-step units have fallen.



TheHellPatrol -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 12:04:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
How are things going? Any favorite new features yet?

Regards,

- Erik
Yes, the Alt/Magnifying key[;)] and the help button to find/cycle thru units with certain abilities eg:bridge layer makes it much easier to formulate a plan[8D].



ioticus -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 12:13:09 AM)

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.



benpark -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 12:20:27 AM)

AI is putting up an impressive fight so far for me (turn 4, the big one). I'm going to restart, in fact![:'(]



Capitaine -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 12:23:30 AM)

How much loss you incur depends on how aggressive you are in landing. There isn't necessarily a big battle against divisional units on the beach, it's more like the Allies are up against a host of strongpoints that cause attrition losses upon landing. That can be a LOT.

Were you to delay your landing a couple of days, your armada could conceivably clear most of the strongpoints to minimize losses. Nevertheless, I guarantee you don't get far from the beach before you meet the enemy's formed units. And if you delay too much, the enemy will be in much better position around the objectives. I find this realistic.



2gaulle -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 12:32:23 AM)

quote:

How much loss you incur depends on how aggressive you are in landing. There isn't necessarily a big battle against divisional units on the beach, it's more like the Allies are up against a host of strongpoints that cause attrition losses upon landing. That can be a LOT.


with your fleet you must be able to clear enought strongpoint before the landing.
Now I'm able to land nearly anywhere without a loss. in fact not, generaly I loose 1 or 2 art unit at Omaha



JSS -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 12:38:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.


Here's some good to know stuff on the AI...

There's three components to the AI you see in a given game:

1) AI itself as programmed is one component (its really quite tough),

2) the AI will look to directions provided by the scenario designer. These make all the difference in how the AI performs. Scenario designer assigns battle groups, deployment zones, movement corridors, defensive lines, etc... Scenario designer also specifies how the AI should consider various terrain (favorable, undesireable, NO GO)... finally the scenario designer has to issue orders by turn (attack, defend, etc...)

3) The player makes the final impact by designating weak, default, strong, or really strong AI.

JSS



Airborne82nd -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 12:56:01 AM)

Played Omaha twice. Draw and a German marginal--ouch. (I was Allies). The first game took me a while to figure out how to off load my troops onto shore, so I spent about half the game in the water.

Started the real deal campaign as the Allies. On about turn 6 or 7. The British Paras didn't fair so well--sorry boys. Only 1 regiment left.



TheHellPatrol -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 1:24:26 AM)

[X(]I've seen the ai completely change the direction of attack and sweep around to the the opposite flank when i got too careless with by support units. I had a nice wedge of panzers defending Caen with a mess of arty behind them and as i built up the left they came all the way around the right and overran my weak side...DOH![:D]



Airborne82nd -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 2:47:50 AM)

Had a similar occurance in my first Omaha game. I had (foolishly) left my L flank unattended and the Ai capitalized on it. Pretty cool.



e_barkmann -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 4:13:31 AM)

Please note that Run5 does not censure posts unless they are of a personal attack nature. We welcome all comments and discussion about the game; perhaps the poster edited his comments.

Cheers Chris




quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.



theWombat -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 4:44:18 AM)

Yeah, so far the AI has been solid. I got a draw on Omaha, but got whupped real good on the Commonswealth beaches. The AI will ruthlessly exploit holes in your lines, and send mobile forces into your rear areas to kill arty and support units. And it does react to flanking moves pretty well too.

Omaha is really a matter of how long you wait for the Navy to clear the strongpoints. The longer you wait the better shot of landing safely...assuming the Germans don't close in on the beaches. So you have to get some units in on the first turn IMO, and that can be bloody.



e_barkmann -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 4:55:49 AM)

and once you've tried the allies, try the Germans and put the allies on AI control. IMHO most impressive to watch the AI storm ashore - tip though, try putting the option to Fast Naval AI (to speed up the bombardments) - and for the very brave, turn up the volume before turn 1 starts :-)

Cheers Chris



kev_uk -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 5:07:10 AM)

Yeah, pretty good game, although I cant understand the complaints about the AI. Is it just me, or am I the only one who thinks the AI of SSG games is always compatant, if not damn good compared to other wargames? TAO always beats me, or at least makes me suffer, and its also nice to see yet another incarnation of it with BiN.



RobertRasmussen -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 9:54:06 AM)

Hello

I've tried the Monty's Beaches scenario and it seems that the AI - in this scenario at least - is quite hopeless. I've played both sides and easily took Caen as Allies due to the fact that the German armor was busy killing or trying to kill British paras in the Orne bridgehead. I retreated east with my paras and the AI obligingly followed thereby opening Pegasus Bridge and allowing British unit to advance east of Caen. At this point really not necessary because I already had Caen firmly in my grip.

As the Germans it was easy to contain the Brits and I even managed to advance and destroy the supply beeachhead on Sword.

The AI might be better in the campaign scenario - I haven't tried that yet. But I must say that I don't really believe it. More units and a larger map doesn't really make the job easiser for the AI [:)]

A couple of things I noticed:
* The AI seems at times much to eager to attack and at others much to fearful. It attacked viciously as the Germans thereby losing Caen and as the Allies it tiptoed towrds Caen running into a solid wall of Germans. I know that the Germans are supposed to attack but this has to be timed and never be at the expense of security.

* The AI seems rather willing to spilt its divisions? I may be wrong in this because some of the divisions have a long divisional integrity radius, but it seemed that it was very eager to use single regiments a long way from eachother. Often a problem in TAO and KP as well.

This isn't meant to critisize the game. The AI in all the games I know is quite hopeless whether they are tactical, operational or strategic. It seems that all the advances are made in the graphics and gameplay parts.

To end on a positive note I believe the the DBWWII series of games is one of the only true computer WARGAMES out there. Where a lot of other companies are running wild with real-time, 3-D and and all this fluff, I sincerely applaud SSG for sticking with the traditional wargaming values and creating complex games where planning and precision are in the front seat. Thank you [&o]

Have great fun with BIN all of you.

Robert



Cliffor1 -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/19/2004 11:48:01 PM)

I'm on my 3rd campaign game as allies, got slaughtered on the beaches the first game trying to figure out naval bombardment, then in the second game tried to screen Caen with the brits and punch through the center, well the AI let me go far enough and then Counterattacked in 2 places, sortied from Caen brought through my lines killed supply and arty and killed sword and at the same time pocketed my British breakout (3 divisions), it was very exciting, but learning from that started my 3rd game play cautious with the brits and the AI still comes out and smocks the poop out of me if I am careless, One thing I noticed is that the AI utilizes PZ Lehr at Caen and didn't it go to St Lo in real life? I think this is one of the best AI's I've played against...... and if you focus your shore bombardment on Omaha you can land with very few losses, but then the Brits take more damage, so it seems to be a trade-off...
Cliff



ioticus -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 12:33:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JSS

quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.


Here's some good to know stuff on the AI...

There's three components to the AI you see in a given game:

1) AI itself as programmed is one component (its really quite tough),

2) the AI will look to directions provided by the scenario designer. These make all the difference in how the AI performs. Scenario designer assigns battle groups, deployment zones, movement corridors, defensive lines, etc... Scenario designer also specifies how the AI should consider various terrain (favorable, undesireable, NO GO)... finally the scenario designer has to issue orders by turn (attack, defend, etc...)

3) The player makes the final impact by designating weak, default, strong, or really strong AI.

JSS


Thanks for the info, JSS. Exactly how do the various AI levels (weak, strong, etc.) affect how the AI plays? Does it get die roll modifers or cheats at higher levels?



freeboy -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 12:40:26 AM)

Ai gets supply and die roll modifiers



Capitaine -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 1:31:16 AM)

I find that in the Overlord scenario, the Axis AI is very good. At turn 16, Caen does not look doable now, although perhaps I should reshuffle my line there a bit. But the Axis have it manned to the teeth.

Funny thing happened last turn: An SS aufklarung unit infiltrated my lines around Omaha and attacked a stack of support units, rolled a "1" and got an A1 result, haha. Methinks his life span is rather short now.

Took Cherbourg on turn 15, but the front is pretty static everywhere else. Hammering through the bocage while maintaining such a long front is going to be problematic. Planning to roll up the German line from Cherbourg in the East and shortening the front.

Reinforcements are streaming in now so I can see how you just need to pound it out and reinforce w/o waiting for timed reinfs. So many decisions...



TheHellPatrol -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 1:43:40 AM)

I'm having the same results with Overlord playing as the Germans @ turn 15, Caen looks like a keeper but Cherbourg is losing a battle of attrition. I have pushed the allies back to the sea at Caen, for now, but i think i did it at the expense of the western forces.



RobertRasmussen -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 5:21:37 PM)

It seems to me that the AI is FAR better at handling the forces in the Overlord scenario that in the smaller ones. I had no trouble getting an overwhelming victory as both Allies and Germans in the Omaha and Monty's Beaches scenarios. Not because I'm good but beacause the AI well...sucked.

Now I'm halvways through the Overlord scenario - in one game as Allies and in another as Germans - and the AI handles its forces competently. It is still too unconcerned with security resulting in its units being cut of and destroyed because it doesn't keep its supply lines open but all in all it looks like SSG has done an excellent job programming the AI. It's better than most of the other wargames I've played and it seems significantly better than the AI in KP.

Great job SSG!

Robert



U2 -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 7:20:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitaine


Took Cherbourg on turn 15, but the front is pretty static everywhere else. Hammering through the bocage while maintaining such a long front is going to be problematic. Planning to roll up the German line from Cherbourg in the East and shortening the front.




Do you put most of your forces to take Cherbourg and then swing south? I need some advice on taking it. I hate the AI! [:D] Keeping me from glory...



Capitaine -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 8:20:21 PM)

U2, I put the 2nd Armored and the 82nd AB up north and drove to Cherbourg, later augmented by some combat engineers. The front also tended to develop in that direction as well.

I don't know if my strategy is the best, though. If you read what 2gaulle has posted, he's kicking German tail by driving to St. Lo. [X(] I may have to play the Germans to develop a better Allied strategy... [:'(]



freeboy -> RE: So, how are your games going? (9/20/2004 8:35:17 PM)

ouch, gerry ia, not even improved game, just normal, just slipped a fast moving tank into my rear, ouch, killed a hq/supply unit



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