How do I stop B-17's? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific



Message

Otto20000 -> How do I stop B-17's? (9/25/2004 1:54:20 PM)

I have 100 x zero fighters going up against 12 B-17's and all I can do is maybe damage one of them. What can I do to stop them?




thanks otto



Clipper1968 -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (9/25/2004 3:01:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Otto20000

I have 100 x zero fighters going up against 12 B-17's and all I can do is maybe damage one of them. What can I do to stop them?




thanks otto


One of the main UV problem is that the B-17's are quite invulnerable to Japanese fighters attack:I have never seen one of my fighters shotdown these bombers in air interception.Nevertheless you can get better result if your fighter squadrons have a high morale and a low level of fatigue.Don't forget that some of the B-17's that you have damaged will probably crash during their way back to their base;so check the Allied Ops losses.Concentrate a maximum number of Fighters to intercept incoming raid.
Another tip is to concentrate Japanese FlaK on the threatened bases, especially those that are equipped with 75mm AA guns; they are quite efficient in shooting down those damned B-17's.Then you will be able to generate consistent losses to Allied bombers but don't expect outstanding results.
AFAIK there is no solution to prevent those B-17's from bombing your bases by only intercepting them;rely on your FlaK.



CMDRMCTOAST -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (9/26/2004 12:34:50 AM)

Heavy flak and bombing the airfields they are flying from to cause more op losses
have your fighters fly above the incoming bombers to eliminate the need to fly up
to them this will give them more time to attack there targets and less fatiuge on your pilots.
plus run out of bases they can carpet bomb.[:D]



crsutton -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (9/27/2004 4:01:29 AM)

B17s are not invulnerable. Check the actual losses in the intellegence report after each battle. You should see that more were lost on the way home. Remember, he only gets 7 a month so even 3 to 5 lost in one mission is a bad thing. Later on in the game you are not going to stop them (along with the liberators). That pretty much is the way that it was in real life, so don't feel too bad.

Truth was that the zero was not the best plane for fighting allied heavies and did not meet with much sucess. The zero was poorly armed for killing bombers, was very vulnerable to defensive fire, and Japanese pilots were not very adept at group formation tactics (lack of radios was a big factor). As the Germans found out-the only way to attack allied heavy bombers was in massed tight formations.

The allies felt that even unescorted b25s could go up against zeros as long as the bombers maintained tight formation.



Bobthehatchit -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (9/27/2004 2:26:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Otto20000

I have 100 x zero fighters going up against 12 B-17's and all I can do is maybe damage one of them. What can I do to stop them?




thanks otto


Heavy flak and lots of it.
Naval Bombardment of the Air field they are flying from.
Carrier strikes on said air field.
Lots and lots of fighters flying at high altitude, make sure you rotate them to keep fatiuge down and morale up.

As crsutton says you only get 7 B17 a month as the allies and most units that arrive are under strenght. The AI will squander these in small raids in bad weather etc.



Blitzer -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (10/15/2004 8:02:33 AM)

An additional useful tactic is to park a large surface TF at bases under attack - without disbanding it. The ships' antiaircraft points can be valuable in damaging heavy bombers. In any instance you cannot hope to destroy a great amount, but damaging them can set the Allies back since they have a limited supply and the planes take a long while to repair. This works best against the AI, which will send the B17s/24s over at predicable altitudes (usually low). If they start their runs at 20K feet for example no AA or AAA will have an effective result, and your base will eventually be toast. You must however be mindful of antishipping attacks by Allied bombers. A few squads of high-experience Zeroes can help offset this danger quite a bit



Tuli Vapaa -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (10/25/2004 1:33:26 AM)

Zero doesn't have change against B-17 or indeed even B-25. It was built to have long range, so use it. Instead of wasting Zeroes to intercept incoming raids, launch low level (100 ft) sweeps to bases where bombers take-off. Spraying parked planes is much easier and with 100+ A6M you can do some real damage.



Fred98 -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (10/25/2004 3:20:12 AM)

My experiences, playing as the alllied side, is that B17s rarely do any damage. But losing them costs valuable victory points.

How can I use B17s to inflict damage?



Blitzer -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (10/25/2004 9:08:54 PM)

Tuli Vapaa,

I respectfully disagree. As the Japanese I've used large M2/3/5 CAP to decisively thwart heavy raids with even B-17s, shooting down some few raiders outright, but damaging many many more which then crashed on the way home - as comfirmed by my opponents. The Forts and their cousins are not invincible. Unfortunately the fundamental problem for the Empire is that the Allies can marshall huge repeated waves of these bombers, and the Japanese bases will eventually be closed for business, often trapping the Zeroes while the base suffers continuous hammering to keep it suppressed.

The M2s et al do indeed have outstanding range, but take severe op losses when employed in this fashion, especially after the initial pool of trained pilots dries up and you're left with hordes of beardless tyros to carry out your orders.

In short, it is possible to blunt B17 intrusions using the methods discussed above, but in the end nothing will prevent an absolute defeat in the air for the Japanese. Sounds pretty historical to me. [:)]



Tuli Vapaa -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (10/25/2004 10:55:59 PM)

You don't win in air, but you might not lose war either. I have played numerous scenarios in Head-to-Head mode, so I do know what is possible. First, using single large airfield in B-17 range is sure way to lose lot of planes, but dispenced smaller fields allow just as deadly strafing runs and IJN player can keep his bombers even futher back on basis that they too are designed to have range advantage to US/Allied planes.

Japanese navy warplanes were all designed to have edge on range for good reasons. Using them same way as US player would use his planes is losing strategy.



Bobthehatchit -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (10/25/2004 11:21:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

My experiences, playing as the alllied side, is that B17s rarely do any damage. But losing them costs valuable victory points.

How can I use B17s to inflict damage?


Be very careful with them from the beginning, stick them on naval search until they are trained up a bit and you start to get replacements in pool and new groups arriving in theatre, don't let them fly in bad weather. Used in large numbers with liberators as well you can close the likes of Shortland and Rabul. When you have a large number 50/100+ use they only in good weather and with escorts on day light raids (P38's)... make sure you rest them to keep fatiuge down as well and fly then high enough to lessen flack damage.

You can pound the hell out of air fields and ports with enough of them[sm=00000959.gif][sm=00000959.gif][sm=00000959.gif]



crsutton -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (10/25/2004 11:48:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

My experiences, playing as the alllied side, is that B17s rarely do any damage. But losing them costs valuable victory points.

How can I use B17s to inflict damage?
[/quote}

Joe,

I must admit, that is the first time I have heard anybody say the B17s were not effective enough. Most people here think they are too strong. I suspect your problem is how you are using them.

First of all, early in the game, I protect them and use them sparingly. I do not bomb airfields or send out raids unless I really think there is a good reason. My goal is to build up the number of bombers until I have a large force. Generally, I wait until some Liberators are on the scene as well. You need to pick and choose your targets because with the low replacement rate for B17s, you can't affort to waste them in penny packet raids.

However, that said they make excellent patrol bombers and due to the high experience level that they come with are excellent sub killers. If the enemy is keeping his subs too close to one of your bases. Load it up with 17s and place them on about 50-60% sub patrol. They will do a great job.

Once you have a force of about 100 (150 is better) bombers saved up, you can pretty much close down any Japanese base within range. Operating out of Lungaville, you can cloes Lunga down in about two weeks-even if heavily defended. Just use airfield attacks, after closing a base-switch to port attacks to kill of enemy supply. Start out bombing high 17,000+ and lower the altitude as resistance falters. I find a heavy B17-liberator force out of Lungaville combined with B25s from Nevea makes for a nice deadly cocktail.

Massed bombers also can do serious ship damage when used against ships docked in port. I find that many players do not use this enough. If you own Nevea, you can prevent the Japanese from basing ships in Shortland Islands by launching a massive raid from Nevea. You will lose a lot of bombers (10-12) due to the very long range and small air base, but it is well worth it if the Japanese are foolish enough to base carriers or surface ships there. You can break that habit fast.

Once you take Port Morsby, both Kaveng and Rabaul become targets as well.

So, IMHO, the allied heavy bombers are the most important force in the game, better even than the deadly bettys.



marky -> RE: How do I stop B-17's? (1/22/2005 12:56:02 AM)

attrit them by hitting their bases

lots of fighters

FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK FLAK



Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
3.296875