Return of Fire (Full Version)

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Nusskuchen -> Return of Fire (9/28/2004 9:01:17 PM)

Ha! I finally managed it to return the game and get my money back!

After endless discussions about the shopsystem which doesnt show the full cost, the lousy Dollar : Euro ratio, the "missing" features in the game, the unanswered mails by Digital River, my Credit Card company just confirmed the charge back of my money :).

Boy, am I glad I have finally got some justice.

May Mr. Frag and his fanclub be happy forever with their stupid "you cant use what you produce" opinion.

Have a nice day Matrixgames.
[8D]



WiTP_Dude -> RE: Return of Fire (9/28/2004 9:04:41 PM)

Well, good luck to you. Everyone here is prety satisfied with the product, however.



Nusskuchen -> RE: Return of Fire (9/28/2004 9:08:33 PM)

I think its a piece of junk. But I can live with the fact, that there are a bunch of people who like this kind of game.



pasternakski -> RE: Return of Fire (9/28/2004 9:13:19 PM)

See ya around there, nusskusser.



byron13 -> RE: Return of Fire (9/28/2004 9:22:23 PM)

Well, nutcake, it looks to me like your only beef with Matrix is "missing features." Everything else seem directed at Digital River. Except the exchange rate, that is. I, too, am still furious at Matrix for fixing the world currency markets to make WitP more expensive for non-U.S. gamers. They realized too late that the higher cost for the game outside the U.S. did not translate into extra profits for Matrix. Ha! That'll show Matrix the next time they try and fix a global market (I hear they are behind the $50 a barrel crude price reached today).

And I'm guessing the missing features are the ability to shift Japanese production to build advanced aircraft earlier in the war and then actually use them. Unfortunately, rather than being a missing feature, the ability to produce advanced a/c earlier in the war is more properly characterized as being an extra feature that probably shouldn't have been put in. Given the problems this has caused, I'm sure Matrix would have eliminated or curtailed the ability to shift production (thus eliminating an existing feature) rather than give the Japanese (and then, necessarily, the Allies) the ability to use advanced a/c earlier. They may also have allowed a more flexible upgrading system - but then, this is not a missing feature, is it?

I'm not sure what your criteria for a good game are, but if WitP was such a huge disappointment, I wish you luck in finding a wargame that satisfies you.



WiTP_Dude -> RE: Return of Fire (9/28/2004 9:26:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nusskuchen

I think its a piece of junk. But I can live with the fact, that there are a bunch of people who like this kind of game.


It's not that bad! They are fixing various issues as they pop up. However as it is now, WiTP is the best simulation of the Pacific War in gaming history.



byron13 -> RE: Return of Fire (9/28/2004 9:51:48 PM)

Yeah, well, keep in mind that nutcake, the one complaining, has as an avatar a guy constantly dropping a cat/dog/rat down his pants to his crotch. Not sure what that means, but it must mean something! I'm thinking he just likes things a little different.



tsimmonds -> RE: Return of Fire (9/28/2004 10:07:29 PM)

Looks like a French Poodle.



Feinder -> Mmm-kay (9/28/2004 10:24:55 PM)

(* Bah. Stupid forum. Not replying to you Irrel, but to original poster. *)


[>:]

[image]local://upfiles/7554/Xv648950178.jpg[/image]



Damien Thorn -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 12:01:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13
And I'm guessing the missing features are the ability to shift Japanese production to build advanced aircraft earlier in the war and then actually use them.


He may be referring to the fact that the game was advertised (and I think it still is) as having TCP/IP. I was very disappointed when I heard that feature had been cut but after WitP came out I realized it would never be used unless we could enter orders at the same time. Even then one person would probably be sitting at the computer and waiting for a long time.



UncleBuck -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 12:11:08 AM)

Yes if it were played with TCP/IP copnnections the only way it was allowed was in Real time. You had to leave it up for 24hrs a day 7 days a week. 1 minute of game time=1 minute of real time. THe days really did take a day.

TCP/IP how would you do that in a turn based game?

UB



Nikademus -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 12:15:06 AM)

Only real way you can do it is the way Battlefields.com scripted their Combat Mission series. Because it incorporates aspects of both real time and turn based wargaming, TCP/IP play is possible and even practical.

Essentially each player turning the orders phase, inputes his directions. When both players have finished and submitted the computer then plays out the turn internally and creates a "replay" that either player can view at their leasure.....all while online (same as when playing solo or hotseat)

Only way for Witp to do this is to incorporate the same idea...both sides have to give orders while online and hit "end turn" at which point the turn can be run/finished. Given the scale of the game, dont see how it could be practical.



hithere -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 12:22:52 AM)

I think Civ3 does a good job, I don't believe that it would be as bad as it seems...that is, the way it could work, i have no idea if the coding would allow that, and i have no expectation of 2by3/matrix re doing the game. I did not even realize that TCP was considered option though.....guess from UV days



RUPD3658 -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 12:34:24 AM)

Nuss (nut) Kuchen (Cake) (20 years but I still remember my High School German)

What an appropriate name!

I don't know about his katzen and lederhosen avitar though.....



2ndACR -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 12:46:12 AM)

Your loss.

Even though there are a few quirks, I still feel the game is the best around. I may throw a fit when these quirks slap me in the face, but the game is still new so I have faith that improvements can and will be made farther down the road.

Bugs first. Kill them suckers.



Admiral DadMan -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 2:41:55 AM)

Personally, I like bugs.

I can't decided whether I like them crunchy or slimy.

Sometimes I feel like a nut... sometimes I don't!

Crunchy!!

Slimy!!

Crunchy!!

Slimy!!

Crunchy!!

Slimy!!

Crunchy!!

Slimy!!

Crunchy!!

Slimy!!



Mr.Frag -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 2:44:55 AM)

quote:

I can't decided whether I like them crunchy or slimy.


Go with the slimy and fry 'em until crunchy ... best of both worlds! [sm=vomit-smiley-020.gif]



Halsey -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 3:56:43 PM)

Looks like a Gerbel to me.[:D]

All wargames, computer or board, have their own unique problems. Board games have rule interpretation problems. Spent many hours hashing out those, then writing down what was decided. Computer games have programing and information errors.

These are all part of wargaming. They have been all of my 35+ years in wargaming. Anyone remember Seapower rules for miniatures with all those dice? How about Fletcher Pratt rules for miniatures, guessing ranges and laying out torpedo spreads? Then watching your opponent like a hawk as he put the turning radius protractor down to move his ship. Yes, even AH games had rule interprtation problems. In "Bulge" you could move down a river line at normal cost, only when you cross a river does the cost increase. Years after, we are still having problems getting games to realize that distinction.

So it all comes with the package. You either accept it and drive on. Or you curl up in the fetal position and cry "foul". It all depends on what you as an individual are made of. I love wargaming, and I'm willing to take the good and the bad. I say, drive on Matrix and keep it up. You are in a market where few dare to tread! Certainly not the main stream companies.[;)]



Hartley -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 4:07:47 PM)

No idea why people are trying to give this dude the benefit of the doubt. [:-]



tsimmonds -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 4:10:40 PM)

Nice one Halsey.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Return of Fire (9/29/2004 5:50:43 PM)

What's that line in South Park when Cartman's mom is revealed to have participated in German poop porn? "Damn German's" or something? Appropriate given his crotch rabbit avatar.[:D]



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