1.3 and ground combat (Full Version)

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BossGnome -> 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 1:28:31 AM)

i heard somewhere it would be totally different...how different? and how is it going to work? does anybody know oor is this just a matrix-enduced rumour?



DrewMatrix -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 2:22:21 AM)

It is going to be different. Being different, people will have very strong opinions about it. It is definitely going to generate lots of discussion on the Banter Boards.

Some people will say it is better, but some will say it is worse than before.

Both opinions will draw enormous fire from people who have still different opinions.



BRZ -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 3:32:06 AM)

It appears that zone of control will make its entrance in game.



2Stepper -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 3:49:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRZ

It appears that zone of control will make its entrance in game.


ZOC has a play in the game now, though just not as severe. From what I've observed, if a unit has no valid retreat route OUT of the ZOC of the unit attacking it, it dies... Either way, an "adjusted" method should prove interesting.



Tophat -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 3:56:29 AM)

Can we get an example here from a playtester?



Nikademus -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 4:46:22 AM)

Here you go. This pic is with the ZOC's displayed using the 'W' key. No supply can pass through an enemy controlled hex or even one that is co-owned. An actual LCU doesn't need to be in the hex to retain control though in this example i do so as to ensure the AI cant relieve it's trapped forces. [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/452/Li208810407.jpg[/image]



freeboy -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 5:15:38 AM)

quote:

It is going to be different. Being different, people will have very strong opinions about it. It is definitely going to generate lots of discussion on the Banter Boards.

Could you please direct me to the banter boards?



tsimmonds -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 5:28:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Here you go. This pic is with the ZOC's displayed using the 'W' key. No supply can pass through an enemy controlled hex or even one that is co-owned. An actual LCU doesn't need to be in the hex to retain control though in this example i do so as to ensure the AI cant relieve it's trapped forces. [:D]

Interesting. How long does a friendly ZOC persist in an unoccupied hex? Until an enemy unit enters the hex?



Nikademus -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 5:39:18 AM)

yes.



Zorfwaddle -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 6:13:07 AM)

Im playing 1.21 and Im somewhere in Jan 42 (I can only get in a few turns a week). Some BAJD[1] was chasing a few base units up the Malaysian Penisula into Burma about 3 weeks ago and so I had the bright idea [sm=crazy.gif] to try to trap it with some of the brigades from Rangoon and Taung Gyi. He got trapped. It looked like he could not go farther south due to some ZOC effect. In fact it looks like they are sending another heavy-looking division up there to try to bail him out. Meanwhile, Im rushing a few more brigades at what-not down to see if I can get both of them. Should be fun.

Forgot this

[1] Bad Ass Japanese Division



pad152 -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 8:08:24 AM)

quote:

Here you go. This pic is with the ZOC's displayed using the 'W' key. No supply can pass through an enemy controlled hex or even one that is co-owned. An actual LCU doesn't need to be in the hex to retain control though in this example i do so as to ensure the AI cant relieve it's trapped forces


This is all well and good, but can the AI handle this?[&:]

Playing as allies all I have to do is wait for the Japanese to march in Rangoon, cut off their supply line, bomb the crap out of them and wait for them to die! I've done this already with version 1.2X, it sounds like this will even be easier with version 1.3? [:-]

Is the AI for land units new and improved?



pad152 -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 8:17:36 AM)

Hey Nikademus

What's with all of the A/J's on the map picture? Do these show the ZOC?

It sounds like we need some indication to show what units are cut-off!



Nikademus -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 8:51:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

This is all well and good, but can the AI handle this?[&:]

Playing as allies all I have to do is wait for the Japanese to march in Rangoon, cut off their supply line, bomb the crap out of them and wait for them to die! I've done this already with version 1.2X, it sounds like this will even be easier with version 1.3? [:-]

Is the AI for land units new and improved?


The AI is improved but even before the ZOC rule it has always been somewhat easy to outflank and cut off AI led LCU's, especially on the large land masses like China



Nikademus -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 8:52:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Hey Nikademus

What's with all of the A/J's on the map picture? Do these show the ZOC?

It sounds like we need some indication to show what units are cut-off!



Yes. A=Allied J=Japanese, an AJ in the same hex means co-ownership. You'll be able to tell if a unit is cut off fairly easily, as it needs to be able to trace a supply path back to the source point unblocked by an enemy ZOC.



Captain Cruft -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 1:15:33 PM)

I like this. How does if affect movement?



Mr.Frag -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 2:33:39 PM)

quote:

I like this. How does if affect movement?


It completely prevents the current hopping of units where supply gets traced out the wrong way and units get to retreat over the enemy! [;)]



Nikademus -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 4:24:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I like this. How does if affect movement?


It wont affect dedicated (i.e. player ordered) movement at all. It will however govern how the player deploys his forces. i.e. its not enough anymore to mass your LCU's on a road/supply hex or a base. More than ever now you have to watch your flanks. Out in the Pacific or in areas where the terrain is far more restrictive, the effect will be less though supply lines and their defense will be more important to protect



Montbrun -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 4:27:18 PM)

Although an excellent expedient for WitP, ZOCs are, in reality, a function of terrain. Units on higher ground can "influence" a greater area. I've always seen ZOCs as a "grand-tactical" function - battalion/regiment scale. At the scale of WitP (60 miles/hex), there should be no ZOC effects, in say, an Eastern Front game. The ZOC effects would be contained within the hex itself....

Brad



Captain Cruft -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 4:29:10 PM)

OK well that all sounds good! What about moving from one enemy ZOC to another though? Any penalty or restriction on that? Or moving through a ZOC?

A better question might be - will the changes be fully documented?



Nikademus -> RE: 1.3 and ground combat (9/30/2004 4:37:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

OK well that all sounds good! What about moving from one enemy ZOC to another though? Any penalty or restriction on that? Or moving through a ZOC?

A better question might be - will the changes be fully documented?


No penalty in giving movement orders or in accumulating movement points. The "penalty" or better termed "restriction" is that no supply path can be traced through an enemy ZOC (enemy controlled hex). This includes a co-owned hex....i.e. if you have a hex occupied by both sides, a supply path can be traced into the contested hex by both parties but supply will not pass through for either so LCU's of both parties on the wrong side of the hex (in terms of supply tracing) will not be supplied.



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