Identify this one ... (Full Version)

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mikemike -> Identify this one ... (10/6/2004 9:00:22 PM)

Sorry - the picture is a bit blocky.

[image]local://upfiles/12193/Hf999798567.jpg[/image]



DrewMatrix -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/6/2004 10:47:04 PM)

A ship sliding down hill. Hmm, it must be on a river, not the ocean, since the water tilts. So it must be some sort of Gunboat on some river or other in China. Probably pre-war and you are trying to trick us.

How about the San Pueblo?



Tankerace -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/6/2004 11:18:25 PM)

Wow, I'm stumped. But I must say her overall layout and hull form bear a slight resemblence to the Swedish Sverdge class Coastal BB Gustav V, after one of her many rebuilds. Not saying its her, but I did find that resemblance interesting.



juliet7bravo -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 12:01:09 AM)

A coastal cruiser of sometype was my guess too...I was thinking Thai navy or something. Never seen gunhouses like that. Is that an actual picture, or an artists sketch?



Oliver Heindorf -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 12:10:29 AM)

I have seen such gunhouses.....but where ? damn memory [;)]

something russian ?



RevRick -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 12:13:54 AM)

Anyone got Janes Fighting Ships of WWII - take a look at, IIRC, Siam. Seems to me they have two dinky little beasties that look something like this.



juliet7bravo -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 12:31:45 AM)

One of the coastal cruisers/gunboats built by Japan for China, Thailand, and Siam ect. was my first guess too. Unfortunately, it's got too many flinking turrets. Profile does look alot like the Siamese or Thai PG's otherwise though.



Tiornu -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 12:48:52 AM)

Looks like the Khasan class monitors. Quite an interesting little design. How many monitors come with an ASW outfit?



mikemike -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 3:13:51 AM)

And the coconut goes to Tiornu. Well done. Itīs the river monitor "Khasan" of the Soviet Amur flotilla. Built in Gorkiy, transported in parts by railway to be assembled in Khabarovsk and Komsomolsk. In service 1942-12-26, decommissioned in 1957.
Sisters: "Sivash" and "Perekop".
Displacement 2400 ts max, speed 15 kts, range 17000nm/10 kts.
Armour 77 mm (3 in) waterline, 40 mm (1.6 in) deck, gunhouses 50 - 100 mm (1.9 - 3.9 in).
Armament 3x2-5.1 in, 2x2-3 in AA, 3x2-45 mm AA, 5x2-0.5 in AA MG, all in armored turrets, 12 DC or 29 mines.

Too bad there are no river gunboats in WitP.



pasternakski -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 3:17:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike
Too bad there are no river gunboats in WitP.


And Japanese midget submarines with which to attack them???



mikemike -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 3:21:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliet7bravo

A coastal cruiser of sometype was my guess too...I was thinking Thai navy or something. Never seen gunhouses like that. Is that an actual picture, or an artists sketch?


Itīs a photo. It has suffered somewhat in transmission.



mikemike -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 3:29:09 AM)

No, not quite. How about this: LCUīs canīt cross a river when there is a gunboat in the same or adjoining hexes, youīd have to destroy it first. There were quite a number of river gunboats in the Far East, anyway. And what about navigable rivers? IIRC, a RN frigate got herself into trouble way up the Yangtse River in 1948 or thereabouts.



Tiornu -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 3:55:23 AM)

This was Project 1190. The ships were capable of operating in open waters, which explains the dpeth charge capacity. Their armor was somewhat better than on the Kirov class cruisers.



pasternakski -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 4:18:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike

No, not quite. How about this: LCUīs canīt cross a river when there is a gunboat in the same or adjoining hexes, youīd have to destroy it first. There were quite a number of river gunboats in the Far East, anyway. And what about navigable rivers? IIRC, a RN frigate got herself into trouble way up the Yangtse River in 1948 or thereabouts.


Yeah, I've been in trouble way up the Yangtze myself.

How do you destroy it? How can one gunboat stop an entire division or corps from crossing a river (particularly at this scale where bridges aren't even modeled)?

I think we need suicide frogmen for this one. Or maybe Kaitens with little wheels on them so that the piolet (named Maxwell) can pedal down the road, find the enemy HQ, then *clang clang* his warhead with his silver hammer and go "BOOM!"



Tankerace -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 4:43:37 AM)

Well remember, at Port Arthur in 1904, the Japanese army moved in some big @$$ed howitzers, and shelled the Russian fleet until they sank at their morrings. A Gunboat would be vulnerable to anything from a 76mm Howitzer up.



Onime No Kyo -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 5:34:39 AM)

The Russian fleet wasnt going anywhere. According to the account of an American military attache (who's name I conveniently forgot, McCullum, or something like that), the Russian fleet was holding its own for a while against both shelling and torpedoes. But by the time the Japs dragged those howitzers up the hill, the Russian fleet was not only bottled up but the whole city had been cut off for months, making the moorings the world's biggest shooting gallery (especially considering the vantage point the Japs had). By that time, the Russian sailors had no option but to dive for cover. Incidentally, most of the "movable" naval artillery had long been emplanted on shore by then.

So, as far as I can tell, a moving, manevering gunboat is a far cry from Port Arthur.

PS....

Incidentally, according to one "so-called" historian (his conclusions are junk, but I dont have the data to refute his data), the Russians had 2 whole flotillas in action when Barbarossa hit. One of them was on the Dniepr and the other was at the mouth of the Danube on the Rumanian border. By "flotilla", the guy means amphib ships, cutters and even big-gun gunboats (like 8 or 10 inchers, no kidding!). What they planned to do with them you can make up your own minds (because I refuse to accept the guys conclusions), but I thought it was pertinent to the discussion.



Tiornu -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 6:30:56 AM)

Can you cite exactly where these claims are made? Just off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any Soviet forces afloat mounting guns between 7.1in and 12in. The exception would be the German 8in guns aboard ex-Lutzow.



Tankerace -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 6:37:32 AM)

The surviving Gangut class dreadnoughts saw extensive service afloat in WW2

Marat was sunk on the September 23. Oktyabrskaya Revolucia was damaged in late '41, and again in 42, but was back in full commition by November of 1942. Parizskaya Kommuna waas lightly damaged, but was not out of the war for any long length of time. All 3 had 12 12" guns. This data comes from "Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1922-1946".



Tankerace -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 6:38:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


So, as far as I can tell, a moving, manevering gunboat is a far cry from Port Arthur.



I understand that. I merely was citing Port Arthur because if an army can destroy several battleships, I believe it is possible to sink 1 gunboat.



Onime No Kyo -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 6:43:06 AM)

The book is called "Icebreaker" by a guy who uses the pen name Viktor Suvorov (I forget his real name). He is an ex KGB agent who defected to the UK in the 80s and since then has been making a living writing BS "histories" ridiculing everything soviet from the ideology, to the government, right down to the private soldiers.

Just to qualify, I personally, place absolutely no belief in the stuff he writes but unlike him I have never had access to KGB archives (allegedly). In fact, he is the number one target for every self respecting Russian historian. Even his father (who still lives in Russia) came out saying that he is deeply ashamed of his son.

In any case, I thought it would be amusing to mention, even if it is untrue.

Just to stoke the fire a little more, according to him, the Danube flotilla "counterattacked" on June 22. It sailed several dozen miles up the Danube, unloaded their amphibious infantry (several regiments, as I recall) who in turn penetrated about 30 miles into Rumania against negligible opposition before it dawned on them that the front was collapsing around their ears. Once again, this is according to him. Dont shoot the messenger. [:D]

If you want any more of his fun facts, just ask. [:D]



Tiornu -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 8:43:43 AM)

The "bible" on this would be Entsiclopedia Otechestevennoy Artillerii by Shirokorad, and unless I'm missing something, there's nothing between 12in and 7.1in for this period except a notional 9.4in gun--I don't know if even one prototype was made. It was the anticipated main battery for a cruiser design which never advanced far enough to get a project number or any name other than Cruiser X. (The 12in guns of the Sevastopols were not "between" 12in and 7.1in, nor were the 7.1in guns of Kirov, KraKav, etc.)



Tankerace -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 8:57:25 AM)

LOL, I get you know. I thought you meant 12" and under, lol. I'm tired, and not too coherent, lol.



WhoCares -> RE: Identify this one ... (10/7/2004 10:34:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike
...
IIRC, a RN frigate got herself into trouble way up the Yangtse River in 1948 or thereabouts.


That would have been the HMS Amethyst. (together with HMS London, HMS Consort and HMS Black Swan)
Link: Yangtse Incident
Link: Some nice holes to be seen here.


Edit: Switched to a better link.



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