First Impressions? (Full Version)

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toddtreadway -> First Impressions? (10/8/2004 7:03:19 PM)

Has anyone tried Tin Soldiers yet? I'm on the fence on this one, and would love to hear some reports.



wodin -> RE: First Impressions? (10/8/2004 8:04:20 PM)

Waiting on reports aswell.

I thought the game would be about the same price as CotD though.



Hertston -> RE: First Impressions? (10/8/2004 9:24:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Waiting on reports aswell.

I thought the game would be about the same price as CotD though.



It's worth the extra money.. in the payment scheme that Matrix laid out it fits very much in the middle, IMHO.

I'm not sure what sort of "report" you want. The Wargamer article, and the AAR's speak a lot more eloquently about it than I could.

What I will say though, having tested the last three builds, is that above all else TS:A is a FUN wargame. I havn't found a wargame (and it is a wargame) so easy to pick up, yet still challenging and VERY entertaining since Civil War Generals 2, which in an odd way is the closest thing I can think of to compare to it. Like that game, it takes five minutes to learn rather than five hours which makes it accessible to grogs and casual gamers alike. While the AI can be consistently beaten with experience (as with pretty much every other game in the Matrix stable) you won't find the game easy, certainly the first time through. And multiplayer is excellent, too... and obviously that's where the long term challenge will be for those for become fans of the series.

The only slight disappointment I have is that there isn't a map and scenario editor. Hopefully that will be included in the next game.



Black Cat -> RE: First Impressions? (10/8/2004 9:34:13 PM)

How much replay value is there ?

How long does the full Campaign take ?

How is the AI ?

Does leadership, morale, experience, supply have any effects in the Game ?

C.W. Generals II had, for it`s time, a fairly complex leadeship and morale model, weapon upgrades, as well as a long Campaign Game. We can only hope it`s as good as that Game.

I think these are the things people like me are waiting to find out.

EDITED: OK I was unaware of the Wargamer review, which answers most of my question>



Erik Rutins -> RE: First Impressions? (10/8/2004 10:38:15 PM)

In general, I don't want to chime in since I'm obviously not objective on the issue, but I can answer some of these factual queries and give my opinion on the rest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black Cat
How much replay value is there ?


During testing, I played through the main campaign three times. Each time the results were different (both the battles and my between-battle decisions contributed to this) and I never lost interest in going back and trying again. There are also two multi-player scenarios, Bactria and Elysium and all the campaign scenarios can be played multi-player.

quote:

How long does the full Campaign take?


If you are doing nothing but playing the campaign, eating and sleeping, I would say you could finish it in four days. At least, that's my pace. The battles are Thebes -> Granicus -> Issus -> Gaza -> Gaugamela -> Hydaspes. After each battle, you have a chance to recruit, reinforce, train, buy battle cards and replace commanders. Before each battle, you have a chance to deploy.

quote:

How is the AI ?


Well, I haven't played as much as some of the testers or the folks at Koios Works, so I'm an experienced but not expert player. My first campaign, I had to replay three battles because it managed to beat me. At this point, I can generally beat it but it's unusual that I manage a major victory. Usually, particularly in the later battles, it's a pretty tough battle.

quote:

Does leadership, morale, experience, supply have any effects in the Game ?


Yes, Yes, Yes, No (except in terms of between battle reinforcements and replacements, which come from your treasury).

quote:

C.W. Generals II had, for it`s time, a fairly complex leadeship and morale model, weapon upgrades, as well as a long Campaign Game. We can only hope it`s as good as that Game.


I think this is more like the beginning of the series or an ancients version of Panzer General, eventually building up to CWG II and hopefully beyond. If we do well with this, the plans for the next game in the series are quite ambitious indeed.

Thanks for your interest.

Regards,

- Erik



wodin -> RE: First Impressions? (10/8/2004 10:39:18 PM)

I want to see how the buying public view this game.

The era isnt for me at all. However I still have an interest in this game as I like the look of the system.



Marathon -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 12:38:05 AM)

I might give some impressions as soon as I get the digital download to work. [:D]



Erik Rutins -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 1:02:41 AM)

Marathon,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marathon
I might give some impressions as soon as I get the digital download to work. [:D]


What problems are you having? Please e-mail us at support@matrixgames.com if you have any trouble. If the download is being interrupted, try a free utility like www.stardownloader.com to allow you to resume where you left off. Thanks.

Regards,

- Erik



rmielech -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 2:08:36 AM)

I can't get it either. No download button.[:(]



Marathon -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 2:47:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Marathon,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marathon
I might give some impressions as soon as I get the digital download to work. [:D]


What problems are you having? Please e-mail us at support@matrixgames.com if you have any trouble. If the download is being interrupted, try a free utility like www.stardownloader.com to allow you to resume where you left off. Thanks.

Regards,

- Erik


Email sent. There is no link available on the order or redownload page.



Belphegor -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 3:12:16 AM)

Someone must always ask the easy question, and I mean no disrespect to anyone by it. When you clicked to order, you did click the digital download button, not just the PCCdRom one?



Erik Rutins -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 3:19:12 AM)

Hi,

We're checking into this right now, trying to duplicate and get a hold of people at Digital River to solve any problems we find. Thank you for the reports, I expect that we will fix any problem tonight so that you can download your games. Sorry for the inconvenience, we did check the links yesterday and they worked, but it's possible someone over there screwed things up in the meantime. [:@]

I'll post here when I have any confirmation of a problem and if so, news on a fix.

Regards,

- Erik



Marathon -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 4:12:27 AM)

I ordered the download and CD.



Erik Rutins -> RE: First Impressions? (10/9/2004 7:44:30 AM)

Hi everyone,

Well, that was fun. After pulling in half the web development team at Digital River from whatever else they thought they were doing this evening, the problem has been fixed.

If you have had any problems downloading your game, please go to www.findmyorder.com and request to re-download. The download link should now appear for you and the purchase should proceed normally. Please let me know ASAP if you have any further problem.

Please note - your orders are fine, your serial numbers are fine, those of you that ordered boxed games will receive them. This only affected the download link for part of today and as far as we can tell affected no more than fifteen customers. We are working to contact all those who were affected.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience to those that were caught by this, needless to say it's not something that we would ever have wished to happen. Thanks for your order and for your patience. Our apologies for the delay in your getting to enjoy this fine game.

If you have any further issues, please e-mail us directly at support@matrixgames.com and let us konw. Thank you.

Regards,

- Erik



Black Cat -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 12:04:29 AM)

You Matrix dudes _REALLY_ need to find an alternative download system to D.R......[8|]

FWIW I just downloaded and installed it OK...[;)]



Erik Rutins -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 1:03:19 AM)

Black Cat,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black Cat
You Matrix dudes _REALLY_ need to find an alternative download system to D.R......[8|]


We have the equivalent of 10 PBY Squadrons out just for that purpose, believe me...

quote:

FWIW I just downloaded and installed it OK...[;)]


Good to hear, thanks for your purchase. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik



Clipper1968 -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 5:05:02 AM)

I would also appreciate to get some objective feedback from people who have already bought that game as I am currently questionning on a possibly purchase[&:], even if I was pretty sceptical as I said in a previous post relating to a preview article in a french magazine( PC4War);only stupid people never change their mind...[:D]
I am quite interested in antiquity era and all the ages of the human history too;so as an open-minded wargamer[;)] should I pickup this one???
What are the positive aspects for this game?
What has disappointed you?
How long last the average battle?
Is the AI consistent in the campaign?in the battle?

With a good and objective [;)]argumentation you could convince me to buy this game!
Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Vae Victis.[:D]



mbelew -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 5:34:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

With a good and objective [;)]argumentation you could convince me to buy this game!
Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Vae Victis.[:D]


Personally, I can describe in an objective way how I find the game. Everyone would still blame me for being biased, so I won't go there. However, I would like to point to Black Cat's first impressions from another thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=726085

quote:



First Impressions: I _Really_ like the whole Game concept, unit Art Work and interface, most import is that very first, and for me always accurate feeling that I will enjoy playing. I think you have a Winner here.



Thanks for the positive feedback, Black Cat!



Marathon -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 6:33:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

I would also appreciate to get some objective feedback from people who have already bought that game as I am currently questionning on a possibly purchase[&:], even if I was pretty sceptical as I said in a previous post relating to a preview article in a french magazine( PC4War);only stupid people never change their mind...[:D]
I am quite interested in antiquity era and all the ages of the human history too;so as an open-minded wargamer[;)] should I pickup this one???
What are the positive aspects for this game?
What has disappointed you?
How long last the average battle?
Is the AI consistent in the campaign?in the battle?

With a good and objective [;)]argumentation you could convince me to buy this game!
Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Vae Victis.[:D]


I have played a few battles in the campaign and a head-to-head game against Erik. I love the hand painted minature look and think the units are well done. Got to love the hand that comes and removes dead pieces from the board. The gaming system is very fluid. The AI will make you pay for mistakes but it is not as aggressive as most human opponents will be.

No real dissappointments, just one nitpick, there is no tutorial.



Belphegor -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 7:22:30 AM)

From my perspective

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968
What are the positive aspects for this game?

As others have said, easy to learn. Also, the multiplayer aspect. I like to be able to sit down and play a game in a couple of hours with someone even if it is over the net. A Beer and Pretzels game certainly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968
How long last the average battle?


Each battle is quite different. It generally takes me about 1-3 hours to play an entire battle. But usually by then my hands ache and my feet are cold and numb. [:D] It is quite addictive and gives that 'just one more turn' portion of the brain a workout.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968
Is the AI consistent in the campaign?in the battle?


No. And that I think adds to the replay value. I had a pat strategy for a few of the battles, but the response from the AI was not the same to my same moves. I was forced to modify what I wanted to do.



toddtreadway -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 3:54:56 PM)

Well, I went ahead and purchased the game. I am glad that I did.

One of my favorite boardgames, "Ancients", will now get a chance to stay on the shelf a bit more. It was a great game that you could play within an hour or two, gave you some feel for a battle, but was mainly just plain fun. I've played the first two battles in Tin Soldiers, and have to say that its best selling point is that it is a game you can actually play, have fun with, and not have to study a manual. The modifiers are all spelled out for you as combats are resolved, though the morale calculations are a bit more below the surface.

The game really feels like a miniatures game, which is good.

I've also played some of the Great Battles of History boardgames from GMT, which are much more complicated than Ancients. Tin Soldiers does what a computer should do for wargames; it takes all the excessive rolling and recordkeeping out of your hands, makes it very apparent what the current situation is (morale level, unit strength, etc.). One thing I would like is to have a better indication of unit facing, maybe a line extending from the unit, or a brighter base edge.

I've had a couple of graphic problems, like not being able to change the resolution and not being able to see the entire scenario objectives screen, but those have been posted in the tech support area and will likely be fixed.



Belphegor -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 5:11:04 PM)

For unit facing, use the hotkey 's' for unit statistics. You will see a red circle with an arrow that will indicate the current facing of all the units. Very helpful.



Clipper1968 -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 10:21:17 PM)

Interesting feedback![:)]
Will I take the plunge and purchase that game?I am really likely to succumb to the temptation...[:D] but before going ahead I would like to ask a couple of additionnal questions:
Could this game be compared to The Great Battles Series (Alexander,Hannibal and Ceasar) from Interactive Magic that I have really enjoyed over this period?
How many battles are included in each campaign?Does the result you get in a battle affect the number of battles you will be able to fight for the rest of the campaign?
Could you dismiss a leader that you consider as unefficient and replace him by another one?Are the leaders random in regards of their availibility?I think that units get experience when they survive the battle ...
Does the size map change from a battle to another?

Sorry for all these questions but I would really appreciate some precision on these points so I could go ahead confidently and get this game.When could I find time to play all these good or very good wargames?[&:](WitP,BiN,...)I am also waiting for EiA release:is it soon?[&:]"Vive l'Empereur!"[:D]
Thanks in advance.



Belphegor -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 10:49:53 PM)

I haven't played the Great Battles series. So I can't comment there.

ATG has 6 battles in the campaign, plus 2 extras to unlock upon successful completion of that campaign.

You must win to play the next battle. Otherwise you will have to refight that battle.

Leaders can be replaced during the army management screen between battles. It costs you money, like everything else. And yes, units gain experience in battle, but lose that experience if you fill their ranks with new recruits. Training (money) can take care of some of that.

The map scale remains the same, the size of the map does change with each battle.

Hope those answer some of your questions.



Radames -> RE: First Impressions? (10/10/2004 11:54:59 PM)

quote:

Could this game be compared to The Great Battles Series (Alexander,Hannibal and Ceasar) from Interactive Magic that I have really enjoyed over this period?


Having played both, I think the above comment by toddtreadway is appropriate. As Ancients is to Great Battles of History, so this game is to the Great Battles computer series. Great Battles of Alexander specifically, I suppose.

As indicated by the title, this game is has at its core minitures rules rather than boardgame rules. In this, it is a more abstracted than Great Battles, which I saw as attempting to be a more accurate of a simulation.

I think there are a lot of details that differentiate between these two, but that's my "in a nutshell" thought. I enjoy both games - although perhaps for slightly different reasons. I enjoyed Great Battles probably foremost as a way to help me visualize the battles it portrayed. I enjoy TS:Alexander foremost for the gameplay.

Hope that helps.



Marathon -> RE: First Impressions? (10/11/2004 12:06:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

Interesting feedback![:)]
Will I take the plunge and purchase that game?I am really likely to succumb to the temptation...[:D] but before going ahead I would like to ask a couple of additionnal questions:
Could this game be compared to The Great Battles Series (Alexander,Hannibal and Ceasar) from Interactive Magic that I have really enjoyed over this period?


It is very similar to GBoA because it was also based on a board game. Some of the differences are no leader units or command radius, there is fog of war, no two hex phalanx, missile units never run out of ammo and cannot recover unit strength unless you play the health card.



Iņaki Harrizabalagatar -> RE: First Impressions? (10/11/2004 12:14:35 AM)

I was a big fan of Great Battles but I like TS ATG best, AI is better and multiplayer is free from some of the annoying things that plagued GB. As Radames pointed out ATG is more a miniatures game than a wargame, but one that respecially rewards good planning and thinking.



Hertston -> RE: First Impressions? (10/11/2004 12:49:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Radames

I enjoyed Great Battles probably foremost as a way to help me visualize the battles it portrayed. I enjoy TS:Alexander foremost for the gameplay.



A nice summation. Great Battles is certainly the more "realistic" game, and the better tool for understanding how the battles were fought. Tin Soldiers is more fun to play though, and actually offers more tactical possibilities for the player than GBA (or real-life, for much the same reasons).

If you have both, it can be quite interesting to play the same scenario in one game and straight after in the other.



2gaulle -> RE: First Impressions? (10/11/2004 4:21:37 PM)

quote:

Great Battles


unfortunatly unless you have an old system with win95 you will not be able to play it. I have just try it 3 weeks ago



PDiFolco -> RE: First Impressions? (10/11/2004 4:30:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

quote:

Great Battles


unfortunatly unless you have an old system with win95 you will not be able to play it. I have just try it 3 weeks ago

Huh ? All GB games perfectly works on W98 too (at least they did yesterday [:'(] ).
It should also work on Xp but there are some issues, check this : IanM GB Page-compatibility



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