Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (Full Version)

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Ron Saueracker -> Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/12/2004 12:27:46 PM)

I don't understand the basis for the air attack routines. As I've mentioned before, should not fully rested squadrons either attack or not? Of course. Military doctrine demands conformity anduniformity, not individualism. So why would I get this result...

I have four fully rested squadrons of Martin bombers on a size 4 airfield set to naval attack. I also have one fully rested group of Buffaloes and two of Demons. An IJN CV TF is selected as the target. No prob yet. What happens? All the fighters, approx 30 of them take off escorting 3, count them...3 Martins. 3 and 2/3 squadrons of bombers do not take off.

Why is this? They are all readied at an undamaged, supplied base. They had a fatigue level of 01 and were in the 70+ range in experience. There can be no explanation for this. Squadrons operate as units, they don't, for whatever reason, behave like this. Further, they are all at the same base. Why do some squadrons launch and some not? Again, no explanation can be given. What should have happened is either all the planes and all the squadrons launch or they don't.

Simply...the design concept regarding strike handling is muddled. Individual planes or squadrons should not each have a check, the BASE should. Once they launch, the strike might fragment, or they launch an uncoordinated or coordinated strike, but they should not be handled as they are now.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/12/2004 12:41:59 PM)

Some sort of OPERATIONS LEVEL slider for bases might well suffice here. Perhaps the design is trying to do too much, like modelling between maximum a minimum effort levels, and this is resulting in minimum efforts in maximum effort situations and vice versa.



Twotribes -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/12/2004 1:46:19 PM)

I have noticed with the Dutch the consistant 3 plane bomber attack, almost every attack is with just 3 bombers, no matter the amount of aircraft available.



frank1970 -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/12/2004 1:57:38 PM)

No, I have recently seen one with 6 bombers! [X(]




[;)]



medicff -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/12/2004 2:07:55 PM)

Bizarre? maybe. But the trying to understand all the limitations and penalties will help with the results. Remember each check failed will reduce the number of aircraft attacking by either 25 or 50%.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/12/2004 2:20:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: medicff

Bizarre? maybe. But the trying to understand all the limitations and penalties will help with the results. Remember each check failed will reduce the number of aircraft attacking by either 25 or 50%.


But the checks should be for BASES, not individual planes within a sqdn and squadrons among many., I believe. No air boss would have all his planes ready and not launch them all vs a max effort target like a CV TF. And squadrons don't split up because some like their chances while other pilots don't.



tanker4145 -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/12/2004 3:05:11 PM)

I've had the Dutch launch two 20 plane strikes, but 3 is par for the course, I guess I'm lucky since they had low morale, low experience, and overall were in a bad state, except there was no CAP.

As for your point, Ron, I agree somewhat. I don't mind some planes not flying, like 5-10 out of 24. I could make up different reasons for this. Problems before take off, lack of bombs, only sending one flight or two, whatever. But I do wonder why there are so many small strikes. I don't mind when they're uncoordinated..that happens. But when only 3 launch, the only reason I can think of is that they only show those that make it to the target...the other ones are off target or turned back due to mechanical or fuel problems or something.

It would be nice to get maximum effort when you want it. Especially when you have a perfect situation, enough supply, big enough airfield, enough support, and an air HQ. I'd also love to be able to tell my bombers what to attack. For example, I only want the Martins and Hudsons to attack CVs, and DDs and smaller. No BBs, CAs, or CLs since they aren't good at damaging them. That's probably too much to ask though. Either way I still love the game. Partly because of the randomness. I just can't make my mind up I guess [&:]



dacharls -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/13/2004 10:04:23 AM)

Put a more agressive leader on the bomber unit, works for me. I always put a agressive leader on my frontline bombers just to make sure he alsways launch as many plane as possible. But watch out make sure the bomber unit have at least 70+ xp or you will lose planes in ops.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/13/2004 10:16:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dacharls

Put a more agressive leader on the bomber unit, works for me. I always put a agressive leader on my frontline bombers just to make sure he alsways launch as many plane as possible. But watch out make sure the bomber unit have at least 70+ xp or you will lose planes in ops.


This is not the point. What would a squadron leader have to do with squadron target assignments if his were not the only group at the base? What are HQs for? None of this makes much sense to me the more I play the game. The chain of command structure is totally bypassed the way it is handled right now.



Onime No Kyo -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/13/2004 10:52:45 AM)

Hi,

I'm not sure there is anything quite so wrong. I admit that there are oddities, like having a CV launch the VB with all the escorts and then have the VS come in naked as sin. Also, I have notised that Dutch level bombers attack in threes but the TBs (the ugly ones with floats) attack in fours.

Otherwise, everythings seems to be working out on this end. I have not seen anything quite so enfuriating, although if I did, I'm quite sure I would react the same way. [:)]



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/13/2004 11:03:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Hi,

I'm not sure there is anything quite so wrong. I admit that there are oddities, like having a CV launch the VB with all the escorts and then have the VS come in naked as sin. Also, I have notised that Dutch level bombers attack in threes but the TBs (the ugly ones with floats) attack in fours.

Otherwise, everythings seems to be working out on this end. I have not seen anything quite so enfuriating, although if I did, I'm quite sure I would react the same way. [:)]


I like the uncoordinated strikes you are referring to because the entire squadrons launch. I'm just not convinced that the LBA makes any sense. A base with a few attack squadrons would not leave some squadrons on the ground while other squadrons attack. Any CO who did would be strung up.



Smiffus64 -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/13/2004 12:52:58 PM)

Perhaps an explanation is that they did launch, but got lost along the way?



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Bizarre air attack routines revisited. (10/13/2004 1:58:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smiffus64

Perhaps an explanation is that they did launch, but got lost along the way?


They simply did not launch.



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