RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (Full Version)

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Onime No Kyo -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 3:10:45 AM)

Hey Tanker,

I was just wondering, are you keeping all the bases? I would think that half the actual bases that can be considered such were nothing more than a tree patch in that time period. Mind you, I know absolutely nothing about that period myself.



Tankerace -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 3:56:12 AM)

Nope. A few bases will be there, to represent coaling stations, but about half the bases will be removed, or made very small. In fact, Pearl Harbor isn't even going to be a big base. The Player can improve it, but it can't become a size 9 port (I think 6 is a good number, to reflect only recent usage). I will still include several bases, probably more than you will need.

As opposed to taking bases to gain or control airsuperiority, in WPO you will take bases to set up coaling ports, to increase the range of your fleet. While you may "own" an island, you may find that it is to small to do you any good. In addition, amphibious landings are going to be difficult, because there is absolutely no doctrine. So, your primary objective is to get only the bases you need, and destroy the enemy's fleet. Then you can go about taking over territory.



ColFrost -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 4:38:04 AM)

i just can't wait to see the AARs with USS Albany leading the fleet! [:D]



HawaiiFive-O -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 4:56:42 AM)

I am so jazzed at how well this mod is coming along.

Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait...



Jorm -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 5:40:29 AM)

Its a shame
i just returned a book on WPO that described in great detail the issue of forward bases and coaling
the USN changed over to oilfired ships some time in the mid 20's so you might find this is not as big a problem as it might seem at 1st

The issue of at sea replensihment somes up, ie they couldnt recoal effectivly at sea, sure they could do it on a very limited basis, or do it in the lee of atols/islands. But that was the point of the 'thrusters' and 'through ticket" plans, to grab a recoaling base in the phillipines or similar island

cheers
Paul



Tankerace -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 5:46:39 AM)

They did change over to oil firing yes. But, to change over to oil firing, you have to dock your ships. When there is a war on, that isn't the quickest thing to do. Plus, a lot of your older ships are still going to use coal, as they are good enough to fight, but not good enough to worry about modernizing.



Desertmole -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 5:48:31 AM)

Great, that is really nifty. I love the idea of using the CCs for their intended purpose.[&o]

I'd like to throw out an idea for addition. Hector Bywater, in Seapower in the Pacific, written in 1921, mentioned a plan to convert the 6 Connecticut and Virginia class OBBs to Assault Ships for the Marines. It would have involved removing the tertiary batteries (7" and some 3") to allow the ability to carry a 1500 man battalion landing team. [sm=00000030.gif] The ships retain their 12" and 8" guns for fire support, freeing the battleline to provide protecting anf fight the good fight,[sm=00000036.gif]

Good luck on your project![sm=00000436.gif]



Tankerace -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 5:52:13 AM)

Actually, you hit something I was toying around with. I hadn't decided yet, but I was thinking of making it where some US predreadnoughts would be converted to transports, or to depot ships like other countries predreadnoughts. The only thing stopping me is trying to figure out how to do it. Troops can only load on a transport, but Im not sure how a transport with battleship armament would behave. Once I get into the main testing phase, I'll play around with it, and see what could be done with it.



Desertmole -> RE: Screenshots of Plane data, F6C-1 and F4B-1 (10/20/2004 5:58:05 AM)

Hope it works! The Marines I talked to mostly seemed to get a H**d-on when they were told of a dedicated fire support ship that was a transport too (they got the same way when shown the late '50s plans for the Iowas). [;)]



Tankerace -> Aircraft upgrades. (10/20/2004 7:58:12 AM)

While I am thinking of it, before I go watch a movie and turn in for the night, I'd like to take a moment to describe Aircraft upgrades and replacements in Plan Orange.

In the 1920s, aircraft were still seen as a nuisance. Naval aircraft especially, like submarines, were considered dead end careers for naval officers. While more squadrons will appear than historically existed in the 1920s (to simulate the war), they will be nothing on the scale of those involved in WW2. Aircraft production, in comparison to that of regular WitP, will be very small. Aircraft mass production simply did not exist in either the United States or Japan, and both countries usually produced enough planes to fill out 5 or 6 squadrons per type (max), plus some spares. While the player will get more planes than this, they will not get much more. What does this mean? Well, fo rone thing you can't launch mass air offensives on the scale of WW2. However, given the vast area of the Pacific, and the range of the planes, this won't be too much of a concern.

In addition, based on the small number, through 1930 you will probably have a mix of planes in your front line units. Whereas in WitP you;d instantly upgrade all F4Fs to F6Fs, in Plan Orange you will find you can maintain force and strength levels better if you have a mix and match, I.e. the Langley having 12 F4B-1s, 11 F6C-4s, and then either 11 TBMs or O2Us. This not only makes sure you don't run out of planes, it also represents the "hodge-podge" of planes that served on American carriers at the time.



rekab -> RE: No Sara and Lex? (10/20/2004 8:01:56 AM)

Just had a thought on the 1922 start!

If the Washington Treaty was not ratified, when pressured to choose between Japan or US would Churchill still have dropped the Anglo-Japanese Treaty? (An action that p***** *** the Japanese and could be argued laid the foundations of WITP)

After all was that not what Plan Red was all about? The British Empire honoring its obligation to Japan?

Japan honoured the Treaty in 1914, by declaring war on Germany.

So in the 1922 version might we have the option of the US alone against Japan and the British Empire[:@]

Just a thought........

--Bob



Tankerace -> RE: No Sara and Lex? (10/20/2004 8:22:25 AM)

I'm considering it, but for the initial release no. This is mainly because if the Brits were going to help out the Japanese, they would put all their ships in the Atlantic. That way, the US would be split and could be defeated. To model this, I can simply give the US about half the ships and see what happens.

However, as I planned the mod, here is the general path of naval events that lead up to it. Items in Bold are departures from history.

1914: The Entente and the Central Powers declare War.
1915: Battle of Dogger Bank
1916: Battle of Jutland
1916: Britain starts building the first of the Admiral Class battlecruisers.
1918: WWI ends. Britain begins construction of 3 more Admiral class battlecruisers (Hoods)
1919: Britain has scrapped, or begins scrapping all predreadnoughts preceeding the Agamemnon.
1921: Battleships Alabama and Ostfriesland used as targets in air attacks. While the sight of battleships sinking causes alarm, but does not persuade all who watch.
1921: The United States hosts the Washington Naval conference in an attempt to disarm the world's fleets. The main objective of this treaty is to give the US parity with England, ensure a superiority of Japan, and break up the Anglo-American Alliance.
1922: America and a partially banckrupt England agree on the treaty. Furious, Japan renounced the Anglo-Japanese alliance, and demands that she be given an equal rating as the two superpowers. After refusing to agree to this, Japan withdraws from the conference.
1922: On February 8, 1922, England and the United States ssign an agreement, both pledging that each will come to the others aid in the event of war.
1922: In May 1922, the US makes one last attempt to restart the conference. Japan, again demands parity with England and the United States. Once again refusing, diplomatic negotiations are broken off.
1922: On May 30 1922, all British and American citizens are forced out of Japan, and all British aircaft in Japan (serving as protypes for Japanese models) are seized by troops.
1922: On May 31, 1922, The Japanese Ambassador delivers a note to the United States Government. It amounts to a declaration of war.
1922: On June 1, 1922: The British Government, despite being nearly bankrupt, declares war on Japan. Immediately, it prepares to send a force of dreadnoughts to protect Interests in India and Malaya.

So, why the conference offended Japan, it also made them renounce the treaty, which was an intended effect.



rekab -> RE: Aircraft upgrades. (10/20/2004 8:45:24 AM)

After that, I do not think anyone can say you have not given serious thought to all aspects of your WPO mod.

You never cease to amaze me[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

This mod is going to be a real 'Honey', (as the Brits in WW2 named a bit of US hardware, so we name a bit of US software)[8D]

--Bob



Jaypea -> RE: Aircraft upgrades. (10/20/2004 5:26:12 PM)

Will you be using the whole WITP map? IF so, how are you handling ground troops all over the map? It must be difficult to find out troop dispositions for the pacific in 1922, right?

Just curiois because I like the ground war part also and this could be real fun.

Thanks
JP



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Aircraft upgrades. (10/20/2004 5:54:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaypea

Will you be using the whole WITP map? IF so, how are you handling ground troops all over the map? It must be difficult to find out troop dispositions for the pacific in 1922, right?

Just curiois because I like the ground war part also and this could be real fun.

Thanks
JP


Ask Don Bowen nicely is the way to go I'd bet![&o]



Don Bowen -> RE: Aircraft upgrades. (10/20/2004 6:15:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Ask Don Bowen nicely is the way to go I'd bet![&o]


Sorry Ron, but you've over-estimated my library. I am pristinely ignorant of pre-1939 forces. I have a couple of books with some information but no "hard" OOB data.

Guardians of Empire, the U.S. Army in the Pacific 1902-1940 ISBN 0-8078-4815-8
War Plan Orange, the U.S> Strategy to Defeat Japan 1897-1945 ISBN 0-87021-759-3

P.S. Any interesting Mail recently???



Tankerace -> RE: Aircraft upgrades. (10/20/2004 9:29:26 PM)

Basically, I am using the same pre-war formations, but now you'll find tanks a fairly scarce thing, with the occasional Whippet or M1 Combat Car. Reinforcements will still be present, but not to a great extent. There will enough ground troops to execute landings and ground combat, but again nothing on the scale of WW2.

I can tell you that the main area of land combat will be centered in the islands of the central Pacific (coaling stations), and in the Philippines. I will probably also include extra formations, so that the player can attempt to invade the other country. However, any 1920's war in the Pacific would have been primarily a naval war. Amphibious landings had only been accomplished 1 other time in history, and Gallipoli was a bloody disaster.



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