How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (Full Version)

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rlc27 -> How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 4:54:31 AM)

While we wait for the patch...(reminds me of waiting for the game to come out earlier this year!)

Two years ago on Block Island (part of RI) I saw some neato Hellcat warbirds that just now made me think of this thread.

I'm currently working on Stage III of my private pilot's license. I originally started this pursuit 10 years ago while in high school but stopped for lack of money/interest. [:-]

Started again 3 years ago, had a bad experience with an instructor, stopped, then started for the last(?) time earlier this year--on the home stretch now. [:D]

Dad was a private pilot, and we used to talk a lot about WWII planes and such. I guess that's where part of my interest comes from.

Any other student pilots or otherwise around? [:)] The difficulty of landing a Cessna 172 with a slight crosswind makes me have worlds of respect for the aviators who did on a 700 foot long carrier deck in a pitching sea. [&o]



Toro -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 5:06:37 AM)

I'm considering my Private Pilot license. My brother is a pilot, and instructor (and commercial pilot, and commercial instructor). You'd think I had an in... naw, he lives in a different state. Pah! Maybe the spring.



rlc27 -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 5:18:44 AM)

Aw, if you got a connection you got to do it. Cut rates! Impress the girlfriend/wife (if you can get them to go with you)!



kaleun -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 5:58:06 AM)

Private Pilot here. Haven't flown in a few years though.[:(]



Cav Trooper -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 6:16:59 AM)

Private Pilot here: flown 182, 172, 150, Tomahawk and Beech Sundowner (did most of my training in this, and did the final Test ride in it). Working on getting final 19 hours of cross country to meet the basic requirements to start my Instrument training. 131 Hours Total time.

quote:

The difficulty of landing a Cessna 172 with a slight crosswind makes me have worlds of respect for the aviators who did on a 700 foot long carrier deck in a pitching sea.



Not a problem, just remember to turn slightly into the wind to maintain runway centerline, once into the flair drop upwind wing into to the wind to keep the centerline between the struts, and rudder to keep nose pointed down the runway. ---Or---- Rudder to keep the nose on the centerline, drop the upwind wing into the wind to stay lined up on the centerline.(think that's a good way to describe it [8|]) .. 172's are a dream to land, crosswind or no crosswind, just takes practice and smooth control movements[:)], and stay calm... You've got the basic skills already to land it in almost anything...



fbastos -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 6:22:09 AM)

How much does it cost to get the pilot license?

F.



rlc27 -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 7:18:00 AM)

That's like saying, how many eggs does it take to make an omelette? [:)]

From all the guys I've talked to it seems there is quite a bit of variation. You can spend more or less depending on the plane you're flying, the rating of the instructor, if you're an aviation club member or not, if you buy block time, if the plane is rented wet or dry (with or w/o fuel included), your own aptitude, etc. A few people will come in an get their license in 50 hours, others will go over 100. One current estimate I hear a lot is about $5500. Not too bad when you consider it a lifetime investment, but I also think that number is kind of low, if you add in ground school, testing fees, supplies, etc. Maybe a little over 6g's to make sure?

X-country with an instructor is the single biggest hit so far, a 3 hour flight costing 350 buckaroos.



fbastos -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 8:06:38 AM)

Thanks, RLC.

Sometimes I think of taking some classes just for the fun of it. $6K is kinda hard, though. Perhaps when I'm richer! :)

F.



herbieh -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 8:09:51 AM)

Out of currency glider pilot, the cheapest and most challenging way to fly[:)]



tigercub -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 8:48:55 AM)

I am a aerial photographer and flyer still working on pilot's license work comes first over 500 missions! lol flights that is..in.Cessna 172.. 152..210..skyfox ..tigermoths all high wing.[image][/image]



von Murrin -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 8:56:51 AM)

I'm going to see if the military will give me lessons this winter.[;)]



2Stepper -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 5:15:00 PM)

While not an aviator, I am a weather forecaster in the air force. Have been for my entire career of 17yrs. I'm what any of you flyers would recognize as the military equivalent of the weather part of a flight service station. Though considerably more involved.

Love it though... I did get a chance to fly once... Rather impressive once in a lifetime ride in an F15D. 30 mins of pure nirvana. [8D]



Dunkamoto -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 8:14:37 PM)

I'm an airline captain for a 121 operator. I am also a flight instructor. The new FAA sport pilot rule should make getting a pilots liscense a lot cheaper once the program gets rolling. Even though their are some limitations on the license it is a great start. You are limited to an airplane with a max gross takeoff weight of 1320 pounds. The airplane can only hold two people and you are pretty much restricted to day VFR. Most recreational flying falls into this category anyways. Once the new Light Sport Aircraft start coming into flight schools the rates to rent these planes should be significanty lower than your average Cessna or Piper. Plus they will be brand new aircraft. The EAA has an excellent web site with sections on this subject.

http://www.sportpilot.org/



Stilletto -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 8:24:55 PM)

I have about 20 hours into my private pilot's license. Ran out of money, then got married and never finished. I will someday, though.

I had quite an eventful first 20 hours. On one of my training flights the radios quit working due to vibration. We had fly around and around and around until we could get them working. Instructor didn't want to attempt to land at the busy field we started from.

1st solo: My 2nd touch and go the engine quit when I throttled it down on final. Scared the crap out of me. We had practiced and practiced "dead stick" landings every flight. Didn't realize I was going to do it on my first solo!

Overall I love to fly and will finish. Just talking about this is making me itch to finish.



Sabre21 -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 9:50:50 PM)

I'm a retired attack helicopter pilot from the Army, but I have landed on board ships before. I was also a standardization intstructor pilot. Now I'm fully retired and enjoying life.

Sabre21



PBYPilot -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 10:52:46 PM)

Private Pilot Single Engine Land and Glider. 700+ hours all on less than 108 horsepower (with a couple of minor exceptions). About half with no horsepower at all, and most of the rest on 65hp (in a J-3 Cub).

As for crosswind landings, wait til you try them in a taildragger. [X(]

I second Dunkamoto's suggestion re: Sport Pilot license. Should be less expensive, and all hours are applicable against higher ratings. Still waiting for some of the details And the Light Sport Aircraft category should produce some very interesting aircraft ready to fly in the mid 5 digits.

Michael



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 11:04:04 PM)

Instructor Instrument Multi engine rating, but no longer current. Roughly 800 personal hours, mostly Piper Arrow, Commanche and twins in Beach Baron and Piper Seneca. A lot of that done on the government subsidized dole via Air Force Aviation clubs way back int he early 80's. Was able to transfer a lot hours from various stints of military pilot training while a cadet at the Air Force Academy and a failed stint at UPT....

3150 hours as an Air Force Navigator and Electronic Warfare officer on the RC-135 V/W's.

Family, job, other pursuits took the place of flying for me many years ago. I'd rather have someone else fly me around now so I can look out the window!



rlc27 -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/19/2004 11:49:24 PM)

These are great responses. I kind of figured there were a lot of flyers around here. Didn't know there were so many with such experience though. [&o] And it's neat that we've got a forecaster here as well. [&o]

I'm supposed to go up on a short x-country this Friday but if my darn ear doesn't clear out I don't know if it'll happen. My instructor just got hired on with an airline so now I'm on my 6th instructor since I started more than a decade ago! He left after my last dual x-country but forgot to sign me off before he suddenly left, so now I get to demonstrate my x-country skills (and shell out $300 more) to my new instructor before he can sign me off. [:@] But then it's only a few more hours and retake my written (old one is expiring) till the checkride. What me, nervous? [X(]



jcjordan -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 12:47:13 AM)

Been a pilot for over 10yrs was working & had enough hrs for IFR ticket but then came 9/11 & the flight school took a big tumble after that so just haven't been doing much for the past couple of years.



Dunkamoto -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 12:48:23 AM)

I got to do my first takeoff in a taildragger yesterday. I'll second PBYPilot's opinion on crosswind takeoffs in them. I have over 4500 hours and it was very humbling. It was in a friend's 1943 Howard DGA-15P. I don't much of the WWII history of this aircraft but it was quiet unique going from a modern airliner to a vintage aircraft. A lot has changed in 60 years.



Kwik E Mart -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 1:07:41 AM)

Does a former P-3 Orion pilot count? Roughly 1000 hours, including trainging in P-Cola and Corpus Christie. Flew out of Moffett Field near San Jose, CA. Two deployments - one to Okinawa (interesting place) and one split between Misawa (northern Japan) and the Persian Gulf (based in Misirah, Oman). Here's an ironic photo, given this forum's theme...US plane to the right of Japanese MSDF plane.



Kwik E Mart -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 1:08:46 AM)

told you i'd screw up the photo attachment...good thing P-3's carried an Inflight Tech....

[image]local://upfiles/13152/Fd910465986.jpg[/image]



Bladesss -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 1:17:13 AM)

Army Helo Pilot (CW3) 3000 hours. Safety Officer, Aircraft Accident Investigator, OH-58, Uh-1, UH-60. Arty FO, Lots of Cav, and Medivac exp. Retired now.

My computer handle (Blades) was given to me by Steve Cole of Amarillo Design Bureau (Star Fleet Battles) during Desert Storm for my helo backround.

Only ship landings were in Montery Bay on some Amph assault ships. Only combat was Panama, took a couple of bullet holes.

"In a single eng aircraft, dont fly under clouds the sun wont shine through, and dont fly further over water then your willing to swim ashore."



rlc27 -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 1:46:57 AM)

Okay, here's a couple questions for those who know (I don't). The "ashless dispersant oil" straight grade stuff that seems standard in most reciprocating engine planes--is that stuff synthetic, partially synthetic, or regular dino? Also, why is it a straight grade when aircraft are flown in all sorts of temps/weather and at varyin RPM's/manifold pressure/temps, etc...I mean, wouldn't a synthetic 10w30 or something be better?

Another question: why is it that, in straight, level, unaccelerated flight, that lift equals weight and thrust equals drag? If the plane is moving forward, isn't thrust overcoming drag and therefore the stronger force?

Finally, why do many new airplanes still use a dang carbureutor when fuel injection would make the engines more reliable and less susceptible to icing, and why don't more planes use computer controls etc. to do away with having to readjust mixture at altitude?



fbastos -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 1:55:29 AM)

quote:

The difficulty of landing a Cessna 172 with a slight crosswind makes me have worlds of respect for the aviators who did on a 700 foot long carrier deck in a pitching sea


Hmmm.. kinda guessing here... but I would guess that a pilot landing on a small airfield has more problems with cross winds that a carrier-based one. After all, you can steer the carrier, right?

But then, I don't have the slightest idea if winds at sea tend to be more unruly than at land.

F.



Kwik E Mart -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 2:16:11 AM)

rlc27,
you answered your own question...you assumed "non-accelerated"....from high school physics (or was it college? damn, getting old...), F=ma.

Or, for airplane, F(Drag) + F(Thrust) = ma = 0, since "non-accelerated".

For acceleration ("a" on the right side of the equation) to be zero, the two left forces must be equal and opposite.

Geez, I just sprained my brain....friggin physics....that's why most pilots fly "by-the-seat-of-of-their-pants" and don't waste valuable brain cells on this stuff. We need all we can save for the beer. [:D]



Kwik E Mart -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 2:31:23 AM)

This thread reminded me of an event I participated in....we launced some old WWII aircraft from the deck of the USS Carl Vinson in San Francisco Bay during the commemeration (sp?) of the 50th anniversary of VJ day in 1995. I was assigned to the Operations Department (Combat Center) at the time. Very stirring to see these old birds take off....not a dry eye on the deck. Hope you can make out some of the planes...

[image]local://upfiles/13152/Rp434318524.jpg[/image]



PBYPilot -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 2:49:20 AM)

Well, since we're wainting for "The Thing That Must Not Be Mentioned"....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlc27

Okay, here's a couple questions for those who know (I don't). The "ashless dispersant oil" straight grade stuff that seems standard in most reciprocating engine planes--is that stuff synthetic, partially synthetic, or regular dino? Also, why is it a straight grade when aircraft are flown in all sorts of temps/weather and at varyin RPM's/manifold pressure/temps, etc...I mean, wouldn't a synthetic 10w30 or something be better?


Ashless Dispersant oil is good old ferns and dinosaurs. There are multi-grade synthetic aviation oils available for aircraft engines but it's the owner/operators choice which to use and the synthetic is much more (like twice as much) expensive. And in my Cub, it made the engine run too cool ! - Oil temperature guage barely lifted off the lower peg - so back to good old Aeroshell 100W

quote:

Another question: why is it that, in straight, level, unaccelerated flight, that lift equals weight and thrust equals drag? If the plane is moving forward, isn't thrust overcoming drag and therefore the stronger force?


Kwik E Mart has the physics right. If thrust exceeded drag, the aircraft would accelerate (and drag increase) until thrust and drag balanced.

quote:

Finally, why do many new airplanes still use a dang carbureutor when fuel injection would make the engines more reliable and less susceptible to icing, and why don't more planes use computer controls etc. to do away with having to readjust mixture at altitude?


Expense. As a general rule carbureutor engines are less costly to purchase and maintain. Obviously, fuel injected engines have advantages that justify their additional cost and complexity. Ease of starting when they are hot is not one of them.

Michael

P.S. Dunkamoto, I always found flying taildraggers a "humility building exercize" The Howard sounds neat - seen 'em, never flown one.



Dunkamoto -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 4:53:20 AM)

My friend says I need to learn in something slower like a champ or cub. The Howard is real stable and very sensitive to rudder. It is so nice to hear the rattle of a Wasp radial up front. The one he has was an air ambulance version with a bigger door.



TheElf -> RE: How many WITP players are aspiring/current aviators? (10/20/2004 6:55:22 AM)

Have been playing both UV and WiTP since the beginning though lately I am in a rut.

I fly FA-18C/D/E/F's for the Navy. Two deployments one to OEF the other to OIF. Don't have much time in those little things. Too scary...[X(]

The Elf



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