How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (Full Version)

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CatLord -> How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/17/2004 4:27:05 PM)

Some claim the UV AI was appalling.[:'(][sm=00000117.gif]
I don't know about early version in WitP but apparently the AI was improved in 1.3 [8D]

How would you rate it now (1.3) on a GC:

Strategically

Poor/Historical path only/Fair/Excellent ?

Is it doing always the same plan over and over again ?

Can it choose surprising strategy ? (like going preferably for India, or China, instead of SE Pacifique/Australia)

Operationnally

Poor/Historical behaviour only/Fair/Excellent ?

Is it managing supply properly (not leaving units unsupplied ? Not taking unnecessary risks in supplying units that have no chance of being saved ?) ?

Is it managing Production properly ?

Is it making gamble ? Is it taking risk ?

Is it attacking properly (for example: concentrating forces to gain advantage on a attack spearhead) ?

Is it defending properly (for example: retreating in easily/heavily defensible position; or evacuating units when a place looks like it will be lost anyway) ?

Is it opportunistic ? Counter-attacking weak point even if losing overall ? Is it too careless ?

Is it still mostly making "death-star" Air Task Force with all CVs in one, or is it adapting to your style of play (concentrating if you are concentrating/more disperse if you are dispersing) ?

That's all I can think of, for now [:)]

Any other opinion about the AI ?

Cat



JohnK -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/17/2004 6:03:29 PM)

Playing the AI is still fundamentally useless except to learn the game.

I've playe a month in 1.3 as the Allies, against the Japanese on hard.

While the Japanese at least no longer repeatedly try to send unescorted transport TFs AROUND Singapore to the Indian Ocean while I still hold Singapore with 90+ aircraft.....

The fundamental greatest problem with the AI is the AI constantly letting small TFs of 1-6 AKs or AP either escorted by a couple of PCs and MSWs, or having no escort at all, CONSTANTLY moving to forward areas or even used as landing forces to capture allied bases that repeatedly get massacred by land-based air or surface TFs.

Meanwhile, the AI appears not to use Japanese DDs to escort anything at all (I hardly ever spot any and the DDs must simply rot in port).

And it maintains TFs of BBs, CA and CVs apparently aimlessly wandering the South China Sea doing nothing and wasting fuel.



Captain Cruft -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/17/2004 7:14:33 PM)

Disclaimer: I could not do any better at coding an AI

The AI in WitP is completely and utterly useless as a competitive opponent. It can be worth playing though, given certain conditions. There are lots of discussions going back through the forum. Personally I use it to learn the OOB and get a handle on the long term shape of whatever side I'm playing.



RUPD3658 -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/17/2004 8:51:47 PM)

Try playing on Very Hard and it will make an OK opponant.

I am playing Scn 15 as the Allies and as of 4-30-42 the Japs have taken the PI, DEI, New Guina (Except PM), and Andaman Island.

I used all of my carriers to escort a cargo TF to PM and 3 days after being spotted the AI sent the KB to deal with it. I haven't seen any of the random wandering that has been mentioned.

When I sent a cargo TF to Guadalcanal I had a Jap surface TF show up a few days later and sink it. It seems to be smarter and react to threats better then in 1.2.



BRZ -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/17/2004 9:17:29 PM)

At Normal, in Scenario 04, I got a LONE american CV, by Cairns.

It was unescorted!!! The AI shouldn't do such a mistake.



11Bravo -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/18/2004 12:22:13 AM)

In UV, I lost a CV by Cairns that I sent unescorted. I knew it was a bad idea but...it was only a short trip to Brisbane to fix some damage. What could go wrong? <torpedo sound blam torpedo sound blam glug glug glug> I was so into realism while playing that I went back into the log I was keeping and carefully modified the orders to indicate that it should be escorted, then I removed a few commanders and reorganized SWPAC to cover my tracks. Fun.



PeckingFury -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/18/2004 12:52:21 AM)

I have the solution that will fix all the complaints about the AI, Remove the Load saved game feature. [:D]


Damn tf wiped out .....reload
Damn did it again .....reload
Enemy CV spotted, ok allies lets teach these japs a lesson...wasp sinks....Yorktown sinks......Enterprise sinks.....Reload
Ok this will be my last reload here it goes Wasp sinks....Enterprise sinks.....Not bad I even got 2 of the AI's CV's this time...........Proceed to forum and brag how the AI was bitch slapped [;)]



tigercub -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/18/2004 12:58:22 AM)

there is no point playing the AI find a human and have a real game!



DrewMatrix -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/18/2004 1:12:55 AM)

The AI is pretty important to me because I have an irregular schedule. I want to do a lot of turns one day (maybe spending 10-15 hours playing the game) then not play at all the next day. There is no way I can find a PBEM opponent with that schedule, so the game would default to the slowest turn-around time of either of us for each turn.

And I find the AI just fine to play against. You can't do something very odd at the grand-strategy level (for example ignoring DEI and going straight for Ceylon as the Japanese). That will confuse it.

If you follow the predictable path (take Tarawa before trying for Kwajalein), if you try keep each successive invasion within range of LBA (which they tried to do) and if you garrison your inactive areas as obsessively as was done in Real Life (for example, all those units assigned to NorPac I leave assigned to Norpac and have them spend the entire war expanding bases in the arctic. I do not try to invade the northernmost parts of Japan in 1942, nor do I send all those guys to the Solomons) I think you will find the AI is just fine.



steveh11Matrix -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/18/2004 3:07:17 AM)

I find playing the ai fun. Better yet, letting the ai play itself for the first 5 months was interesting.

Essentially historic path, but only Repulse got sunk, I've still got POW! [:)]

Bataan is still holding (21st May 1942), most of the DEI has been swept up. As Allies intervening in late April 1942 I was able to rescue some of the Dutch AF. Sadly almost all of the base units have had to be written off.

Buna and Gili Gili have gone, but I've held Port Moresby - actually, no serious attempt on it's been made. The Japanese had already taken everything up to Lunga, but haven't seriously attacked there (yet?)

There's some anomalies. Lots of 'bits-n-pieces' of units around. Ships from both sides being routed through combat areas with little or no escort - or apparent need, come to that. But broadly it played out quite historically.

For all of you PBEM fanboys, please consider that not everyone want to play that way. I rather imagine - given the apparent sales - that most, in fact, are playing against the ai. I'd also believe that they're enjoying it too! The answer to "What's the ai like" is not "Play by Email", it's play reasonably historically against it, and it works.

BTW saying "Never re-load a save game" is like saying "Don't cheat". If you have to cheat to beat the ai, you're only cheating yourself, anyway - so what's the point?

Steve.



castor troy -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/18/2004 12:10:26 PM)

BB Idaho without any escort! Sunk by Betties, stationed on Rabaul, near Efate. What was AI going to do with a single unescorted BB in range of my best torpedo-bombers? Playing on hard, 09/42.



medicff -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/18/2004 6:43:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeckingFury

I have the solution that will fix all the complaints about the AI, Remove the Load saved game feature. [:D]


Damn tf wiped out .....reload
Damn did it again .....reload
Enemy CV spotted, ok allies lets teach these japs a lesson...wasp sinks....Yorktown sinks......Enterprise sinks.....Reload
Ok this will be my last reload here it goes Wasp sinks....Enterprise sinks.....Not bad I even got 2 of the AI's CV's this time...........Proceed to forum and brag how the AI was bitch slapped [;)]



I have to agree with you... but whats the fun if you keep reloading? Especially as the allies as you have so much to draw from. Only thing reloads are good for are the dumb mistakes I keep making since it is easy to miss something in this game. Penalty is the long AI turn replay again. [:@]



patrickl -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 1:23:54 AM)

I don't reload games because it takes the challenge and fun out of the game. Furthermore, it seems that the computer actually plays better without reloading - the AI tends to be intelligent as the game goes on. The AI tends to be dormant and defensive if keep on reloading game. That is what i feel.[:)]



steveh11Matrix -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 1:24:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: medicff

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeckingFury

I have the solution that will fix all the complaints about the AI, Remove the Load saved game feature. [:D]


Damn tf wiped out .....reload
Damn did it again .....reload
Enemy CV spotted, ok allies lets teach these japs a lesson...wasp sinks....Yorktown sinks......Enterprise sinks.....Reload
Ok this will be my last reload here it goes Wasp sinks....Enterprise sinks.....Not bad I even got 2 of the AI's CV's this time...........Proceed to forum and brag how the AI was bitch slapped [;)]



I have to agree with you... but whats the fun if you keep reloading? Especially as the allies as you have so much to draw from. Only thing reloads are good for are the dumb mistakes I keep making since it is easy to miss something in this game. Penalty is the long AI turn replay again. [:@]

Ah. You see, I feel that I should accept that those mistakes have been made, and get on with the consequences.

Steve.



Charbroiled -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 1:28:18 AM)

I'm playing the Allies vs. Japanese AI on Very Hard, and so far I don't have many complaints. I'm going to live with my errors and not reload just because things did go my way. So far the AI seems fairly competent as far as computer AIs go. I know I would be more conservative if I was PBEMing.



Sneer -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 1:45:10 PM)

extremaly weak Ai even on V.Hard (6/42 japan )
stupid capital ships movement like surface combat 4-5 hexes to 120+ torpedo bombers
lack of escort of important ships
small /weak TFs
lack of fleet concentration
nonsense merchant shipping
I can't count sunk Allied AP/AK/TK by now
lack of elemental strategy for ground forces
For me AI is important ( day schedule prevents me from PBEM - I play periodiclly 20-30 turns)
It should be reworked - probably the whole scheme should be made once again



steveh11Matrix -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 2:17:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

extremaly weak Ai even on V.Hard (6/42 japan )

I'm in 5/42 as the allies...
quote:

stupid capital ships movement like surface combat 4-5 hexes to 120+ torpedo bombers

Well, yes - but what was Force 'Z' doing?
quote:

lack of escort of important ships

Haven't noticed this
quote:

small /weak TFs

Some, yes... but KB is still around smashing what it comes up against. (I managed to put a couple of torpedoes into Zuikaku though! :) )
quote:

lack of fleet concentration

See above. KB can't be verywhere. Oh, and remind me of just how concentrated Japanese fleet movements were in WW2? I thought "Massively divided and complicated" was a better description.
quote:

nonsense merchant shipping

If you mean routing it FAR too close to enemy airspace, with inadequate escort, then I 100% agree with you. Major problem, this one. Of course, it affects all of my Autoconvoys and CS convoys as well....
quote:

I can't count sunk Allied AP/AK/TK by now

I agree. I'm just beginning to redress the balance. :)
quote:

lack of elemental strategy for ground forces

Japanese inital offensive strategy seems pretty good to me. I'll let you know how the Japanese defensive strategy works out!
quote:

For me AI is important ( day schedule prevents me from PBEM - I play periodiclly 20-30 turns)
It should be reworked - probably the whole scheme should be made once again

Me too. I'm having fun playing - otherwise I wouldn't be playing! [:)] Sorting out the taskforce routing would, for me, go a looooonnng way to enhance the game.

Steve



CoffeeMug -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 4:05:52 PM)

I play on easy and am being raped. :(

;)

Got to learn the ropes, though ...



Hornblower -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 6:49:25 PM)

My first few games in UV were not pretty. I find the AI now is better then that i was used to in UV.



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/19/2004 8:53:40 PM)

Started camp game 7 dec 41-- now is 20 feb 44. A human player would do much better, but I enjoy playing against the AI. Pbem isn't bad either. But I can get alot more turns out playing against the "comp" instead of one or two turns a day. The AI was more aggressive in the earlier years (41 thru Mid 43). Still puting up a fight with air power. No surface action in at least 6 months(game time). Suprised me by hitting east china area and attacking all out. Still trying to hang on too that area. Playing a old saved game from 1.21 but have patched to 1.30. Also playing on hard.[:'(]



Sneer -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/20/2004 1:15:33 AM)

quote:

stupid capital ships movement like surface combat 4-5 hexes to 120+ torpedo bombers

Well, yes - but what was Force 'Z' doing?


2BB 2-3 CA on surface patrol to LAE 4 months after Rabual is captured by Japan - 3 months after PM is captured and changed into fortress???? charge of RN "R"class BBs into Malaya straits to help Batavia close to taken Singapore ???? and many more

quote:

lack of escort of important ships

Haven't noticed this

between australia and Nomua BBs can be found running alone
I raid this area on regular basis

quote:

small /weak TFs

Some, yes... but KB is still around smashing what it comes up against. (I managed to put a couple of torpedoes into Zuikaku though! :) )

if AI decides to counter KB then I expect it will be concentrated
If KB is running in DEI I expect enemy to strike elswere and vice versa


quote:

lack of fleet concentration

See above. KB can't be verywhere. Oh, and remind me of just how concentrated Japanese fleet
movements were in WW2? I thought "Massively divided and complicated" was a better description.

player is not obliged to follow history closely - it is game

quote:

lack of elemental strategy for ground forces

Japanese inital offensive strategy seems pretty good to me. I'll let you know how the Japanese defensive strategy works out!

I mean - If you loose Malaya early then concentrate on Burma if you loose burma concentrate on east India and so on.
Ai is so confused that all troops stays in Karachi even if I stopped close to Calcutta for 4 months.
No Us activity anywhere - Java was left free till early 5/42 as I was busy in Burma/india/china and AI did nothing to reinforce it. No active defense of Port Moresby - no build up of luganville. no threat in central pacific and so on


quote:

For me AI is important ( day schedule prevents me from PBEM - I play periodiclly 20-30 turns)
It should be reworked - probably the whole scheme should be made once again

Me too. I'm having fun playing - otherwise I wouldn't be playing! [:)] Sorting out the taskforce routing would, for me, go a looooonnng way to enhance the game.



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: How would you rate the AI in WiTP v1.3 (11/20/2004 5:37:25 PM)

One other note: The AI is not doing real bad on the long haul. Like I said in the above thread, I started 7 Dec 41 now 25 Feb 44 with a 1.21 saved gamed patched too 1.30.

Just got hit with a massive Jap air assualt 121 fighters and 20 something bombers(shot 60 down-lost 5). Japs hiting Ichang with over 200k troops both sides. Same for Changsha, close too 300k troops both sides and hex 49.32 with about 180k troops both sides. The comp hit me all about the same time. Trying to hang on. So late into the game the AI is still pro-active. [:D] By the way the 121 plus aircraft air battle was fought over Emirau I. area.[:'(]



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