US WWII Officer Ranks

US WWII Officer Ranks (Full Version)

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dereck -> US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 1:31:46 AM)
I have WAY too much time on my hands today ... [8\|] Added Warrant and Enlisted Ranks Any Marines please help if you know the WWII Marine Ranks [image]local://upfiles/13978/Bz793214399.jpg[/image]

mucky -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 1:41:03 AM)
What rank is this? FO [image]local://upfiles/14672/Hf102943402.jpg[/image]

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 1:50:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mucky What rank is this? FO [image]local://upfiles/14672/Hf102943402.jpg[/image] Flight Officer. That is a British/Australian/new Zealand rank. It is NOT an American rank at all. The list I gave you was the list of official US military ranks. Generally, usually without exception, pilots in the US military are either commissioned officers (the list I gave your) or Warrent Officers (WO or CWO). FO (Flight Officer), FLT (Flight Lieutenant), WCDR (Wing Commander), SLDR (Squadron Leader) are British/Commonwealth ranks.

mucky -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 1:54:06 AM)
ah i see, thanks!

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 1:59:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mucky ah i see, thanks! The US Navy DOES have what they call Navy Aviators and Navy Flight Officers but the distinction is that Navy Aviators are PILOTS wheras Flight Officers are just officers who fly IN a plane and are not pilots. Regardless of that distinction they still have the Naval ranks listed above.

TheElf -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 2:39:43 AM)
Flight officer

V2 -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 3:19:50 AM)
In WWII there were US pilots (USMC and USN for sure...don't know about USAAF) who were NCO's. They were a minority of course. Also, WO's were pilots until recently (the last USMC WO pilot retired a coupla years ago.)

RevRick -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 3:38:18 AM)
had to memorize that thing in boot camp. Luckily, I had a head start in my reading before in school, so it wasn't that bad. Some of the guys never got it. Of course, they also called the deck a floor, and the bulkheads walls, etc., etc., etc.

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 4:24:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: V2 In WWII there were US pilots (USMC and USN for sure...don't know about USAAF) who were NCO's. They were a minority of course. Also, WO's were pilots until recently (the last USMC WO pilot retired a coupla years ago.) I'm not sure about that. Can you name a pilot of a navy plane that wasn't a commissioned officer? The military back then was pretty rank conscious and if you were going to be a pilot of a plane they'd send you to a 30-day Officer Candidate School to get a commission before you'd get a plane. I know the Japanese DID use NCOs as pilots but I don't think the US did.

Don Bowen -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 5:51:21 AM)
Enlisted Pilots in the U.S.N. were known as Naval Aviation Pilots (NAP) and there were a lot of them. VF-2 was originally known as the "Flying Chiefs" due to the high number of NAP. When Lexington was damaged in January, 1942, many Fighting Two Pilots were transferred to other squadrons. Fighting Six received 10 NAP: Howard M. Sumrall, AMM1c Doyle C. Barnes, AMM1c Julius A. Achten, AMM1c Clayton Allard, AMM1c Tom F. Cheek, AMM1c Beverly W. Reid, AMM1c Thomas W. Rhodes, ARM1c William H. Warden, AMM1c Howard S. Packard, AMM1c Homer W. Carter, AMM1c By Coral Sea, VF-2 had been rebuilt and apparently had only a single NAP: Robert F. Kanze, AP2c. As the war progressed, the level of training and responsibility for a pilot was considered appropriate for an officer and pilots were commissioned or warranted (including many ex-NAP).

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 5:58:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Don Bowen Enlisted Pilots in the U.S.N. were known as Naval Aviation Pilots (NAP) and there were a lot of them. VF-2 was originally known as the "Flying Chiefs" due to the high number of NAP. When Lexington was damaged in January, 1942, many Fighting Two Pilots were transferred to other squadrons. Fighting Six received 10 NAP: Howard M. Sumrall, AMM1c Doyle C. Barnes, AMM1c Julius A. Achten, AMM1c Clayton Allard, AMM1c Tom F. Cheek, AMM1c Beverly W. Reid, AMM1c Thomas W. Rhodes, ARM1c William H. Warden, AMM1c Howard S. Packard, AMM1c Homer W. Carter, AMM1c By Coral Sea, VF-2 had been rebuilt and apparently had only a single NAP: Robert F. Kanze, AP2c. As the war progressed, the level of training and responsibility for a pilot was considered appropriate for an officer and pilots were commissioned or warranted (including many ex-NAP). I never knew this. Thank you very much for this information.

Feinder -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 7:03:09 AM)
Yeah, there was a brief time, pre and early WW2 where NCOs (with flying experience) were made pilots. Ended up that it didn't take long to have enough pilot candiates, that were officers, to restrict it entirely to officers. Also interesting factoid is that, in 1942 all US air-crew (sans pilot, copilot, bombadier, nav, which were alway officers) were the enlisted rank that they had "rightfully attained" (thru time in service etc). So you could (and frequently) ended up with with PFCs and Cpls as aircrew. However, as aircraft were lost over Europe, they found that that the Germans were very rank conscious in the PoW camps. So by 1943, it became to standard practice to promote anyone serving on an aircrew to the rank of Sgt, so as to improve their potential treatment as PoWs, if their aircraft were to be shot down. -F-

rogueusmc -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 7:34:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dereck I have WAY too much time on my hands today ... [8\|] Added Warrant and Enlisted Ranks Any Marines please help if you know the WWII Marine Ranks [image]local://upfiles/13978/Bz793214399.jpg[/image] as of now, the Marine ranks are: Non-rate ranks: e-1 Private (no insignia) e-2 Private First Class (one chevron) e-3 Lance Corporal (one chevron w/ crossed rifles) Non-commissioned Officers: e-4 Corporal (two chevrons w/ crossed rifles) e-5 Sargeant (three chevrons w/ crossed rifles) Staff Non-commissioned Officers: e-6 Staff Sargeant (three chevrons, one rocker w/ crossed rifles) e-7 Gunnery Sargeant (three chevrons, two rockers w/ crossed rifles) e-8 there are two Master Sargeant (three chevrons, three rockers w/ crossed rifles) This is a working rank so-to-speak...in charge of a motor pool or something like that First Sargeant (three chevrons, three rockers w/ a diamond) This is more of an administrative rank...senior enlisted Marine at company level... he's in charge of personel. e-9 there are two of these also Master Gunnery Sargeant (three chevrons, four rockers w/ crossed rifles) This rank is like, but senior to, the Master Sargeant. Sargeant Major (three chevrons, four rockers w/ star) This rank is like a First Sargeant but at Battalion and above. e-10 Sargeant Major of the Marine Corps (three chevrons, five rockers and ega) There is only one in the Corps...senior enlisted Marine. I do know that the Lance Corporal didn't exist then...the rest should be the same though I think. This is all from memory. Nor were there crossed rifles then.

madmickey -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 8:19:07 AM)
Jack Pershing was also General of The Armies John Joseph "Black Jack" Pershing (September 13, 1860 � July 15, 1948) was a soldier in the United States Army. Pershing eventually rose to the highest possible rank only held once before by George Washington: General of the Armies. He was born near Laclede, Missouri and graduated from United States Military Academy at West Point, New York in 1886. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Pershing

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 5:36:58 PM)
All information I can find on Marine enlisted ranks are after 1959. I have the Marine Corps ranks (Officer and Enlisted) in my old Blue Jackets Manual I was issued in Navy Boot Camp in 1980 but that doesn't do me much good if the ranks I want are from World War II [:(]

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 5:37:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: madmickey Jack Pershing was also General of The Armies John Joseph "Black Jack" Pershing (September 13, 1860 � July 15, 1948) was a soldier in the United States Army. Pershing eventually rose to the highest possible rank only held once before by George Washington: General of the Armies. He was born near Laclede, Missouri and graduated from United States Military Academy at West Point, New York in 1886. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Pershing Thank you. I wondered if he had been but wasn't sure so I went with the one I knew was promoted to General of the Armies.

Twotribes -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 6:05:31 PM)
There was no LCpl in WW2. Cant remember if they had MSgt either. Otherwise same rank as now, with no crossed rifles under chevrons

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 6:10:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twotribes There was no LCpl in WW2. Cant remember if they had MSgt either. Otherwise same rank as now, with no crossed rifles under chevrons If the Marines follow the same standard as the other services during WWII there won't be any of the E-8 and E-9 paygrades. I know the Navy was easy ... the Senior Chief and Master Chief ranks were just added. So "tentatively" the WWII Marine Ranks would be?: E7 - Sergeant Major or Master Gunnery Sergeant E6 - Gunnery Sergeant E5 - Staff Sergeant E4 - Sergeant E3 - Corporal E2 - Private 1st Class E1 - Private

PJJ -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 6:15:53 PM)
Didn't they also promote U. S. Grant to the rank of 'General of the Armies', or something like that? [&:]

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 6:24:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PJJ Didn't they also promote U. S. Grant to the rank of 'General of the Armies', or something like that? [&:] He was promoted to Lieutenant General during the Civil War ... a rank that up to then had only been held by George Washington. Not sure if he was posthumously promoted though.

rogueusmc -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 8:55:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dereck quote: ORIGINAL: Twotribes There was no LCpl in WW2. Cant remember if they had MSgt either. Otherwise same rank as now, with no crossed rifles under chevrons If the Marines follow the same standard as the other services during WWII there won't be any of the E-8 and E-9 paygrades. I know the Navy was easy ... the Senior Chief and Master Chief ranks were just added. So "tentatively" the WWII Marine Ranks would be?: E7 - Sergeant Major or Master Gunnery Sergeant E6 - Gunnery Sergeant E5 - Staff Sergeant E4 - Sergeant E3 - Corporal E2 - Private 1st Class E1 - Private They did still have a First Sargeant between Gunnery Sargeant and Sargeant Major. IIRC, the Corporal was what is now Lance Corporal and what is now Corporal was called a Buck Sargeant.

dereck -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/28/2004 9:04:37 PM)
So instead of the 7 enlisted ranks of the other services the Marines had 8? Is this correct then?: E8 - Sergeant Major or Master Gunnery Sergeant E7 - First Sergeant E6 - Gunnery Sergeant E5 - Staff Sergeant E4 - Sergeant E3 - Corporal E2 - Private 1st Class E1 - Private

Blackhorse -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/30/2004 2:46:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dereck So instead of the 7 enlisted ranks of the other services the Marines had 8? Is this correct then?: E8 - Sergeant Major or Master Gunnery Sergeant E7 - First Sergeant E6 - Gunnery Sergeant E5 - Staff Sergeant E4 - Sergeant E3 - Corporal E2 - Private 1st Class E1 - Private Not quite accurate, I think. I know E4= Corporal, and E5 = Sergeant. Before "Lance Corporal" was introduced, E1 & E2 were both "Private" and E3 was "Private First Class" as they still are in Army: E9 Sergeant Major (Senior Battalion NCO) E8 First Sergeant (Senior Company NCO) E7 Sergeant First Class ( Senior Platoon NCO) E6 Staff Sergeant E5 Sergeant (Squad Leader) E4 Corporal (Section Leader) E3 Private First Class [one stripe with rocker] = Marine Lance Corporal E2 Private [one stripe] = Marine PFC E1 Private [no stripe] = Marine Private So I don't know what differences there would be in Marine vs. Army ranks in WWII except that a Army E7 Sergeant First Class would be a Gunnery Sergeant in the Marines?

Twotribes -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/30/2004 3:08:55 AM)
Actually prior to standardization I dont think they used E grades. That is simply a standardization for purpose of pay and comparison to services. In the army an E1 is a PV1 and an E2 is a PV2 dont know if those ranks exsisted in WW2, I would tend to think not. Just like I doubt that in WW2 there were two private ranks in the Marine Corps. Today a GySgt is an E7, same as an Army Sgt Firstclass (SFC) in WW2 I doubt the army had a SFC did it? And I dont think MSgt was a rank in the Marine Corps in WW2, I could be wrong, but I dont remember seeing that in anything I have read. I also dont see Sgt Maj on the army list, so I doubt the Marine Corps had such a rank either. 1st Sgt was probably has high as it went. Prior to standardization it was probably hard to judge rank structure between services. Paygrade wasnt an important consideration in WW2, now it is.

Central Blue -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/30/2004 3:11:09 AM)
just to confuse things: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/gunnyg/enlrank.html quote: in 1937, enlisted rank insignia was set up according to pay grade. Three basic types of insignia were prescribed: plain chevrons, chevrons with bars and chevrons with arcs. Here was provided for the first time a clearcut distinction between line and staff. The allocation of these new simplified insignia was as follows: First Grade, Line (three chevrons and three arcs): sergeants major master gunnery sergeants First Grade, Staff (three chevrons and three bars): master technical sergeants master technical sergeants (mess) quartermaster sergeants paymaster sergeants Second Grade, Line (three chevrons and two arcs): first sergeants gunnery sergeants Second Grade, Staff (three chevrons and two bars): technical sergeants technical sergeants (Paymaster's Department) technical sergeants (mess) drum majors supply sergeants Third Grade, Line (three chevrons and one arc): platoon sergeants Third Grade, Staff (three chevrons and one bar): staff sergeants (clerical) staff sergeants (mechanical) staff sergeants (mess) Fourth Grade (three chevrons): sergeants mess sergeants chief cooks drum sergeants trumpet sergeants Fifth Grade (two chevrons): corporals mess corporals field cooks drum corporals trumpet corporals Sixth Grade (one chevron): privates 1st class assistant cooks drummers 1st class trumpeters 1st class The system of assigning insignia by pay grade rather than by rank or title remained in effect througout World War II. Although there were changes within the structure during the war -- for example, the first sergeant went up to the first pay grade in 1943 -- and new titles were added -- for example, stewards and steward's assistants, -- the insignia remained constant. more USMC rank history here: http://www20.brinkster.com/gunnyg/gyhistory.html

Twotribes -> RE: US WWII Officer Ranks (11/30/2004 3:30:30 AM)
Ok so ignoring the non command ranks and the support ranks you have the following: SgtMaj and MGySgt 1stSgt and GySgt PltSgt Sgt Cpl Pvt1stclass

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