RE: Leader Bug (Full Version)

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tanker4145 -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 4:38:32 PM)

I guess I'm the odd man out, because even with the problems I love WITP. The biggest one I want fixed is the leader bug, then land combat, specifically where units get stuck and can't move, and teleporting units-but this doesn't seem to be a huge problem. After that I'd like some fixes for night bombing, but house rules can cover that. Overall I love the game even with the problems and don't have much to complain about aside from the leader bug. Then again I'm not nit-pickey and just looking to have fun and not be hamstrung by a million in game rules.



guke -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 4:40:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

If 1.4 proves to be the last major update and they don't open the door for support from the community, I'm going to be really pissed off and will never again buy anything from Matrix.

It's not for the money, but for the time and dedication I've spent with the product, up so far.

F.


I'd love to get my fingers on the sources. I bet many of the little GUI annoyances would take less time to fix than
I spend on clicking my way around playing the game as it is [:(]

For example, if I resort a list I expect the visible section of the list to begin at the top of list. Very often I resort the
list and then move scroll the top. I've probably done that 1000s of times since I started playing. I'd be surprised if it
took more than 15 minutes to fix this (admittedly minor) issue if I had the source code and (development environment
of course).

For obvious reasons this is impossible, but I am starting to really dislike closed source software where I can't even
fix the bugs myself. Too bad there are so few open source games.



PeteG662 -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 4:41:45 PM)

Tanker,

Help me out on the leader bug issue with Pry and lets get this thing fixed. A few more save games for Pry and he should be able to isolate it. I have been sending him turn by turn with notes as to what leaders changed each time. It is painstakingly slow for me so any help would fix this a lot quicker as Pry stated there appears to be more than one cause.....the more info he has the better the fix!

Thanks,
Pete



tanker4145 -> RE: Leader Bug (in reply to Tallyman662) (11/30/2004 4:49:17 PM)

Pete,

I'd be happy to help. I'll have to start watching my games more closely. I really haven't paid attention to leaders much till Yorktown got sunk and WO was killed when it sunk since he was the Captain. That's when I realized some guys had retired or whatever and been replaced. I'll pay more attention though and try to find a repeatable one in the future. I just started a new game so I think that'll be a good chance to find one, and I'm not going to change a single leader in it manually or use auto-convoy at all so as to eliminate them hopefully as causes. Plus, I save about a months worth of saves usually anyways so hopefully next time it happens I'll be able to send the save to Pry.

I think you're on to something Tallyman662. Imagine if all of us sent one or two saves to Pry. I think he'd be able to fix it a lot quicker. I'm willing to take the extra 20 minutes to look at leaders closely each turn now.



PeteG662 -> RE: Leader Bug (in reply to Tallyman662) (11/30/2004 5:04:17 PM)

It takes me about an hour to check every leader of every ship, TF, LCU and air unit then I plot out the turns. Save, execute, save, then check it again. In the first three turns I have had over 20 leader changes from a 1.3 scenario 15, historical turn 1 off, surprise off, playing allied vs Jap AI.....I note every change of leader and send the three saves to Pry....turn before, plots, results....

Pry is getting some data he needs but could use more examples as he stated in the other thread on the leader bug!

Thanks!
Pete



testarossa -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 8:45:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tanker4145

I guess I'm the odd man out, because even with the problems I love WITP. The biggest one I want fixed is the leader bug, then land combat, specifically where units get stuck and can't move, and teleporting units-but this doesn't seem to be a huge problem. After that I'd like some fixes for night bombing, but house rules can cover that. Overall I love the game even with the problems and don't have much to complain about aside from the leader bug. Then again I'm not nit-pickey and just looking to have fun and not be hamstrung by a million in game rules.


All this bitching IS here because we love WitP.



dday -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 9:21:10 PM)

I see the prolbems as well. It mosty with the Dutch's forces, now I know why they don't attacks. KB going streamming thur DEI and not one attacks from the Dutch. Keeping eyes on all the leaders nowaday. If I can, I will send save game out too.



Tankerace -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 10:11:09 PM)

I agree with testarossa. We are here griping not because we hate the game, but because we love it. Games that have disappointed me (SH2 and DC out of the box, Jane's Attack Squadron, Empires: Dawn of the Modern World, etc) I have simply walked away from. But WitP is different. It is one of the best games out there, and even though unfinished I consider it 80 bucks fairly well spent. I can live with some of the bugs, but Land combat (I had a Japanese LCU move 3 hexes in three turns as it chased a retreating chinese unit) and the Leader Bugs have to be fixed. If there were no ship captains, I would be ok with that. But its hard to take it seriously with a WO. That's why I have and will send in saves.

I am not anti-WitP. I just think that WitP has soo much good potential, that to not fix the bugs and make the game the best would be a crime, both to the consumer and to the guys that invested so muc time and effort into the game.



testarossa -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 10:22:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dday

I see the prolbems as well. It mosty with the Dutch's forces, now I know why they don't attacks. KB going streamming thur DEI and not one attacks from the Dutch. Keeping eyes on all the leaders nowaday. If I can, I will send save game out too.


Never had it in my game. Although I've changed Dutch air units to SWPacific. And i sunk 1CVL, 2BB, 3CA, 1CL, 10DD, 30+ PC, didn't even try to count AKs and TKs. I moved all dutch units to Surabaja, and dug them in. Than in July 1942 when I got 2 AUS div and 1 US div I kicked them out of Java. Dutch regiments when they get 100% strength and 100 prep point are quite resilent. I moved some of the Dutch base units to Darwin, and they became static cause they got big guns during recovery period. Now they stuck in Darwin.
And I moved that big P40 unit from Philippines to Sarabaja too, cause dutch fighters suck big time.



byron13 -> RE: Leader Bug (11/30/2004 11:48:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
I have had it up to my nostril hair with with the "after all it's a business, that's why support must end." No ****e. No prob there. I have a prob when the same theory does not apply to releasing a finished product. Does anyone here think this is a finished product worthy of being released and is good value?


I think it is a finished product and is a good value. This game released in better shape than any other game I've bought in years with but two exceptions: (i) games like the annual sports games whose engines haven't changed in years and are only tweaked each year for an additional $40 investment and (ii) John Tiller's games whose engines haven't changed in years and are only tweaked with each "new" game. I'll be playing it for a long, long time. I believe it is considerably more complex that most other games out there and is one cause for the problems. But for the sound problems, the game was playable as released. To call it "unplayable" is ludicrous.

Frankly, I haven't noticed the missing leader bug, or the dropping torpedoes from 15,000 feet, or some of the other problems. Guess I don't pay as close attention as I should, and I'm sure I'd be pissed off if Nimitz and Spruance suddenly disappeared. Ground combat should have been redesigned early in the process. But I'm still having a helluva lot of fun with this game and would gladly buy it again.

Hopefully they will let the enthusiasts continue to tweak as was done for BTR. But, as with BTR, it's going to be painful having to start over again each time a new build comes out - and I ain't startin' over for no stinkin' OOB mod.



Tankerace -> RE: Leader Bug (12/1/2004 12:01:20 AM)

I completely agree. Despite all the problems, I too have had a boatload of fun with the game. Even back in 1.21 when Halsey disappeared I was still having fun, I just replaced him and went along. My desire is to make sure the game does not die. It is too good to fall like many games before it.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Leader Bug (12/1/2004 3:11:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tanker4145

I guess I'm the odd man out, because even with the problems I love WITP. The biggest one I want fixed is the leader bug, then land combat, specifically where units get stuck and can't move, and teleporting units-but this doesn't seem to be a huge problem. After that I'd like some fixes for night bombing, but house rules can cover that. Overall I love the game even with the problems and don't have much to complain about aside from the leader bug. Then again I'm not nit-pickey and just looking to have fun and not be hamstrung by a million in game rules.


I think the game is good enough to have caused enough of us to get upset. It's like a tease, you know? Talks dirty, looks amazing, promises of endless pleasure, but ya never get to home base. Of course we are fans of the game! Otherwise, what's the point of all this bitching? Are we rivals in the gaming business? Weird fans of a rival gaming business? NO! I want the full meal deal, that's all.



testarossa -> RE: Leader Bug (12/1/2004 3:19:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tanker4145

I guess I'm the odd man out, because even with the problems I love WITP. The biggest one I want fixed is the leader bug, then land combat, specifically where units get stuck and can't move, and teleporting units-but this doesn't seem to be a huge problem. After that I'd like some fixes for night bombing, but house rules can cover that. Overall I love the game even with the problems and don't have much to complain about aside from the leader bug. Then again I'm not nit-pickey and just looking to have fun and not be hamstrung by a million in game rules.


I think the game is good enough to have caused enough of us to get upset. It's like a tease, you know? Talks dirty, looks amazing, promises of endless pleasure, but ya never get to home base. Of course we are fans of the game! Otherwise, what's the point of all this bitching? Are we rivals in the gaming business? Weird fans of a rival gaming business? NO! I want the full meal deal, that's all.


No. You do get to home base. Than husband (read bug) comes and stick the bat right under your tail.



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