uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (Full Version)

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tigercub -> uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 12:19:20 PM)

I purcashed UV because i was waiting for witp and there was no wargame like it{yepee}, but to my dissmay it was riddled with problems so with evey patch i restarted and when witp came along months later i drop it never even getting close to finnish it never to play it again thats for sure. .....now with witp restart after evey patch again! its still full of bugs and ver 1.4 is the last patch, chances of the bugs getting fixed before they drop it very little from were I sit....pardon my spelling.

AFTER ALL THE WORK YOU GUYS PUT INTO IT AND ITS A BLOODY ALOT FINNISH IT ....or you lost me!



Grunty -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 1:34:54 PM)

I fully agree, tigercub... for that kind of money one would think that at least it is finished and playable... I am also confused now after getting latest patch what should I do with my game (january 1943)... I spent so much time playing it thoroughly and now I should restart to get things fixed ...... not bloody likely.. I guess it's just another case of selling incomplete product.. still I think the game is great (but incomplete)... they take your money all at once but give you their product (game) by pieces (and it takes months obviously to get complete version)..[:-]



pauk -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 2:29:36 PM)

well, i guess that developers will wait with new patch several months (to find eventual bugs in late stage of war) and then will relase 1.4 patch "patch of the patches". The final patch. The mother of all patches with all minor bugs fixed!

let's not lose our faith!

the priest of WiTP religion.



KPAX -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 5:23:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

I purcashed UV because i was waiting for witp and there was no wargame like it{yepee}, but to my dissmay it was riddled with problems so with evey patch i restarted and when witp came along months later i drop it never even getting close to finnish it never to play it again thats for sure. .....now with witp restart after evey patch again! its still full of bugs and ver 1.4 is the last patch, chances of the bugs getting fixed before they drop it very little from were I sit....pardon my spelling.

AFTER ALL THE WORK YOU GUYS PUT INTO IT AND ITS A BLOODY ALOT FINNISH IT ....or you lost me!


I personally think that WitP is a GREAT game.

Restart the game after each patch ? Why ? I have a PBEM that is end of July 1942. The two of us are very happy with how the game is running.

I did WAIT to start additional PBEMs until after the patch. Had some options / additions / modifications that sounded nice. Not enough to start over, but some pluses.

This is a game. People can figure out ways to take advantage of things. Just look at the internet and worms/viruses. It happens all the time, but we keep using the internet.

If there are problems / cheats / unfair advantages, then you make house rules and talk about things, like grown adults.

In one of my games that is late Feb 1942, China has been / could be a problem. We e mailed back and forth and talked things over. It works, try it.

The game is NOT broken. Maybe some tweaking and house rules, but that is life.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 5:26:32 PM)

Grunty, so on your game you are on "january 1943"? Well, then the game IS playable, indeed. Believe me, this product is "excellent" if you compare it with "Pax Romana" and other games. I don't like slandering other companies, but they tricked many customers (me included, that is why I can blame them). That game was truly unfinished, an authentic sloppy work. As far as I know, there was a lot of beta work in WitP -the game was supposed to be released on 2002, I think-, a very complex and sophisticated game, don't forget this. Nobody is perfect [:)]

Yes, maybe 1.4 is the last "official" patch, but Matrix/2by3 might give the code (that is a possibility): bugs will be hunted and fixed the same, don't worry.

P.S.:
no, I am not a paid Matrix lackey. I say what I think [:)]



kaleun -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 6:17:58 PM)

I have a PBEM game going on 4/42, we patched and continued. The game works great, and if we dont get the OOB changes, so be it. We have found the game playable, and have only a minimum of house rules.
It is a game. [X(] It is impossible to tweak it to everyone's satisfaction. I hope the next patch is not rushed until some PBEMers get to the 45 year, to test the end game period.
Meanwhile, play along!



worr -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 7:13:05 PM)

Here I thought he meant "not finished" in that he is still playing. :)

Has anyone taken the game yet to 1945 in PBEM?



2ndACR -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 7:27:42 PM)

I doubt it. 1943 is the farthest I have seen talked about and that was on 2-3 day turns.

I think me and Ron made it the farthest in a PBEM on 1 day turns before a bug bit me in the butt and basically killed our game. We made it to July-Aug 1942 by averaging 6 turns per day. We were blasting thru a month of game time per week of real time. Many of sleepless nights wasted.

The game is playable if you want to overlook some of these bugs. But I do think it will take more than 1 patch to kill them. It is the silence that is making people angry more than anything.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 8:20:23 PM)

a) Guys no one ever said that 1.4 is going to be last patch, where did you read it? I mean apart from fabrications of usual grumblers on this board? No official 2by3 or Matrix source ever said 1.4 is planned to be the last patch for WITP.

b) Even without any patch applied, in pseudo-buggy vanilla version 1.0 WITP would still be the best wargame available.

c) Restarts? Who is forcing you to restart whenever new patch becomes available? Restarts are needed ONLY if you want to use the OOB from the latest patch. Well, tough luck. If you want 51nd Reserve AA Battallion to be correctly called 51st Reserve AA Batallion, then, yes, you'll have to restart. Instead of actually praising the developers and testers for having patience to take care of such minor issues, YOU have the nerve to ACCUSE them of forcing you to restart? Why?

O.



mucky -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 8:27:35 PM)

just be glad you haven't bought superpower 2! that game is a mess...you should check out there forums everyone is really pissed off, the game is (dont know if it still is) unplayable.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 9:25:01 PM)

Mucky, I come from "Pax Romana" game forums as well -that is why my "weird" nick, which I did not change when I signed off here- and you are right... that place was full of angry and scandalized people also. And we all had our good reasons. This game (WitP) and support is the Paradise, this says it all [:D]

P.S.:
needless to say, I gave up many months ago (in spring). A few months ago I looked at that forum and it was like the game: dead... † Requiescat In Pace †



worr -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 9:46:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
I think me and Ron made it the farthest in a PBEM on 1 day turns before a bug bit me in the butt and basically killed our game. We made it to July-Aug 1942 by averaging 6 turns per day.


What killed it?

I've had players allow turning back the clock to avoid anything serious.



freeboy -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 10:08:28 PM)

Zeta 16 and I are approaching 12 01 42 in one day turns !



dtravel -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 10:08:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

a) Guys no one ever said that 1.4 is going to be last patch, where did you read it? I mean apart from fabrications of usual grumblers on this board? No official 2by3 or Matrix source ever said 1.4 is planned to be the last patch for WITP.

b) Even without any patch applied, in pseudo-buggy vanilla version 1.0 WITP would still be the best wargame available.

c) Restarts? Who is forcing you to restart whenever new patch becomes available? Restarts are needed ONLY if you want to use the OOB from the latest patch. Well, tough luck. If you want 51nd Reserve AA Battallion to be correctly called 51st Reserve AA Batallion, then, yes, you'll have to restart. Instead of actually praising the developers and testers for having patience to take care of such minor issues, YOU have the nerve to ACCUSE them of forcing you to restart? Why?

O.


a) Those of us who have either worked in software companies or have tracked what has actually happened with game companies read the entire Developer Journal. The UV/WiTP engine will no longer be used for any future games. They have only promised one more patch, with any additional ones being on a "as resources are available and we feel like it" basis. They then assigned all the programmers who could do the patches to other projects. Knowing that no company EVER officially says "No more patches", the implications are clear and apparently confirmed by the extended silence from the developers on this forum. (They weren't gabby before, true, but they did occasionally post. The current, ringing silence has the feel of a lawyer imposed gag order to me at the moment.)

b) By definition, if its the only wargame currently available, its the best. Not a ringing endorsement, personally.

c) What little response there was to bug reports always had the disclaimer that if you had not started the game with the latest, current, patch then they could not use the report because your game might be corrupted by problems in the earlier versions. Basically, the patches only fix bugs if you start a game with them. It is not just a matter of the OOB. Its that the OOB and other related databases affect the executables as well.

I hope that didn't come across as a rant. I am honestly trying to answer your questions in a rational way.



testarossa -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 10:13:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mucky

just be glad you haven't bought superpower 2! that game is a mess...you should check out there forums everyone is really pissed off, the game is (dont know if it still is) unplayable.


I like when Mexico forms alliance with South Africa and Syria and attacks India. It is just hilarious. It is a comic world simulation kind of Evil Genius.



Tankerace -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (11/30/2004 10:17:55 PM)

LOL, In Superpower one I saw Iraq invade Sri Lanka. Priceless.

@dtravel, I don't think it was a rant. Its true. When a company says that the only programmer will be "reassigned", its kinda hard to fix bugs. There might still be OOB patches, but bug fixes will be damn-near impossible.



madflava13 -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 1:09:54 AM)

I'm a self-confessed Matrix/2by3 Fanboy...
But regardless, what are you guys complaining about? Have you EVER seen a game so detailed, so large and so complex? I haven't... Maybe the Falcon series was. In a game of this scope, there will be bugs that slip through. There are bugs in EVERY game I've ever played except maybe Tetris. For there to be so few bugs (and no game killers that I've heard about) in such a huge project when much simpler games are riddled says something to me about the quality of Witp. The support is outstanding as well. Maybe 1.4 will be the last patch, I don't know. But the fact that we are getting a 1.4 says something as well. I bought Hearts of Iron - not to start that debate up, but there's (sadly) an example of how poor support has become these days. 2by3 and Matrix stand behind their products and definitely bust their ass to put out good games. They always have fixed problems that come up. No one is ever going to be 100% happy because we all have things we'd like to see added. But this is as close to perfect as we're ever going to get, IMHO.

I say stop complaining. Take a step back and look at what we have. Tell me where you can find a similar product, with similar support, and then I'll listen to the complaints. Nothing will ever be perfect in a game this size. Let's be realistic and stop nit-picking...

And no, I was not paid to write that, but I wish I was!



kaleun -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 1:12:04 AM)

What I would like to know is the context for your Paraguayan airforce line.[:)]



Tankerace -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 1:14:33 AM)

I too have wondered about that....



DFalcon -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 1:38:55 AM)

Me three



pompack -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 2:13:42 AM)

Four



2ndACR -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 2:36:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Zeta 16 and I are approaching 12 01 42 in one day turns !


Me and Ron would have been in mid 1943 by now if the bug did not hit us.



2ndACR -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 2:40:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: worr

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
I think me and Ron made it the farthest in a PBEM on 1 day turns before a bug bit me in the butt and basically killed our game. We made it to July-Aug 1942 by averaging 6 turns per day.


What killed it?

I've had players allow turning back the clock to avoid anything serious.


In the war room on page 2 there is a thread started by Ron S. titled "has the LCU movement bug been diagnosed yet" that explains what brought us to a screeching halt. I hate going into it again. Just too painful and pisses me off.

We would have turned back the clock, but we both neglected to backup for at least a month of game time and that is just way too far back to repeat everything.



2ndACR -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 2:45:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

I'm a self-confessed Matrix/2by3 Fanboy...
But regardless, what are you guys complaining about? Have you EVER seen a game so detailed, so large and so complex? I haven't... Maybe the Falcon series was. In a game of this scope, there will be bugs that slip through. There are bugs in EVERY game I've ever played except maybe Tetris. For there to be so few bugs (and no game killers that I've heard about) in such a huge project when much simpler games are riddled says something to me about the quality of Witp. The support is outstanding as well. Maybe 1.4 will be the last patch, I don't know. But the fact that we are getting a 1.4 says something as well. I bought Hearts of Iron - not to start that debate up, but there's (sadly) an example of how poor support has become these days. 2by3 and Matrix stand behind their products and definitely bust their ass to put out good games. They always have fixed problems that come up. No one is ever going to be 100% happy because we all have things we'd like to see added. But this is as close to perfect as we're ever going to get, IMHO.

I say stop complaining. Take a step back and look at what we have. Tell me where you can find a similar product, with similar support, and then I'll listen to the complaints. Nothing will ever be perfect in a game this size. Let's be realistic and stop nit-picking...

And no, I was not paid to write that, but I wish I was!


BTR was very complex and it too had its flaws and bugs. But GG (as far as I can tell) let JC have access to the source code so he could continue work on it. And to this day it is still alive on my HD. But for the price that was paid and to be slamming into killer bugs that wipe out (basically) a hard fought 3 month long PBEM, doing 6-7 turns per day gives me the right to raise all the heck I want.

If the Devs/Matrix want the complaining to end, then start answering some questions and respond to some of these complaints. As long as they are silent about what they are doing, I for one will bitch.



madflava13 -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 3:16:01 AM)

ACR -
I understand... If you've had problems, then certainly bitching is appropriate. I think overall the experience has been positive for most people. I just don't know of any widespread bugs that are killing PBEMs - although as you said, your mileage may vary.
By the way - I love BTR. Perhaps one day GG will release the code to WiTP as well - probably not anytime soon, but I love what JC has done with BTR and I think it was a wise decision to release it in that situation.

For everyone wondering about the Paraguayan quote - It's from "Spies Like Us". Chevy Chase is a minor functionary at the State Dept. holding a press conference. I think it's one of the funniest scenes in any movie - but then again, I think that entire movie is hilarious. Check it out if you haven't seen it.



Grunty -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 4:05:33 PM)

don't get me wrong..... I think the game is great (or even unique)..but it pisses me off that there are important issues and many possibilities that a bug can destroy your game... of course I won't restart now that I'm in 1943... but for one reason I don't like that in 1944 enemy kamikazes will wreck half of my fleet (completely unhistoricaly) just because some programer forgot to set CAP protection for kamikazes....surely it will change the game completely (I can't imagine invading Japan with this thing not repaired).. So Oleg it's not such a minor issue like you said..it's not just for some unit names or date of arrival... WitP is possibly most complex and detailed but definitely not finished game....



madflava13 -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 4:29:37 PM)

The Kamikaze issue was resolved in 1.4, correct?
I understand the hassle of restarting if you're in 1943 already though...



rtrapasso -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 4:36:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

The Kamikaze issue was resolved in 1.4, correct?
I understand the hassle of restarting if you're in 1943 already though...


Huh? Do you mean ver 1.4 will resolve it? Or do you mean 1.3 DID resolve it. If the latter, see below:

Problems reported with Kamikazes are :
1. Okhas apparently don't work.
2. Since putting up a CAP at night will apparently cause game to crash to desktop, kamikazes are free to roam at night and cause mass destruction. Don't know if the AI does this (attack at night with Kamikazes) though, as I haven't gotten that far.



joey -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 4:51:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

ACR -
I understand... If you've had problems, then certainly bitching is appropriate. I think overall the experience has been positive for most people. I just don't know of any widespread bugs that are killing PBEMs - although as you said, your mileage may vary.
By the way - I love BTR. Perhaps one day GG will release the code to WiTP as well - probably not anytime soon, but I love what JC has done with BTR and I think it was a wise decision to release it in that situation.

For everyone wondering about the Paraguayan quote - It's from "Spies Like Us". Chevy Chase is a minor functionary at the State Dept. holding a press conference. I think it's one of the funniest scenes in any movie - but then again, I think that entire movie is hilarious. Check it out if you haven't seen it.



I, too, loved BTR. What is this about JC doing something to BTR? Where can I go to find this out? Is there a new update or patch file available?



USSMaine -> RE: uv & WITP ! NOT FINNISHED (12/1/2004 5:12:48 PM)

quote:

I, too, loved BTR. What is this about JC doing something to BTR? Where can I go to find this out? Is there a new update or patch file available?


For the BTR lovers out and about try this: http://pub103.ezboard.com/bbtrbombingthereich



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