RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (Full Version)

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RUPD3658 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (12/1/2004 10:07:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

Thanks Herr Kaleun. Wimmen and war. They go together like butter and toast. [:D]

Rup...do you usually try to send some APs north and pull those Australian units out of Rabaul?


I pull out the survivors by sub.



RUPD3658 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (12/1/2004 10:08:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Thanks for the write up!

A couple of brief notes...

AE's only start to work in 1945, so making them right away is a waste (I found out the hard way). Better to put a heavy emphasis on AR's.

AS's need a port size 3 or larger to function. It takes Wake a while to build up to that level. Midway gets there first, so watch the port sizes and put an AS in Midway and then in Wake as each becomes ready.


AEs work if in a PORT prior to 1945. The work at sea from 45 on.



RUPD3658 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (12/1/2004 10:15:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caltone

Decent list but I would question the need of sending Chinese units to Hanoi. Once a Chinese unit enters Indochina, a Vietnamese militia type is created. Additionally, you get one for every Chinese unit that enters up to a max of 4.

While they're not great units, they function OK on defense and will start in the cities you're trying to attack. They will be superior to the Chinese units as well.


As with all things Chinese in the game you make up for lack of quality with quantity. 4-5K worth of Chinese units will steamroller all the way to Hue (No pun intended for those who know the correct pronunciation). This will destroy a few Jap units that get pocketed and will also build up experience for your units.



DrewMatrix -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (12/3/2004 7:37:48 PM)

One thing I think is important for the Allies early is score some points! It is not enough to run for it, hide and try to keep the Japanese score low. You have to rack up points yourself.

The reason is that the Japanese, to win, need to win early (if the game runs to 1944 they will lose). And to win early they need a big multiple of your score (is it 4 times your score in 1943?). It is easier to get a high multiple in a low scoring game. I.e. it is easier to win 12,000 to 3,000 than to win 20,000 to 5,000. Every point you score means they need FOUR points.

So seek out some things to kill. AKs and APs are good if you can find them. Better if they have troops on board. I got an AP filled with troops off the Phillipines with my PTs for a bunch of points. And go for air attrition. Even if you lose more A/C than the Japanese, as long as you are costing him A/C you are a) eating up his hard-to-replace pilot pool b) burning up supplies he can't afford and c) you are, even if you lose 1.5 or 2 A/C for every 1 he loses, putting him farther behind his 4:1 goal.

Eventually you will rack up a huge score. Just don't let him get a high multiple early in the game.



tanker4145 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (12/3/2004 8:20:17 PM)

Beezle, very good point! In the air as long as you are killing 1 for every 3 you lose in 1942, that will help your score since he needs 4:1 for auto victory in '43 (I think at least). Same thing with killing AKs and APs, he has to kill about 4 for every one of yours otherwise it's helping you prevent auto victory (of course depends on size of AK/AP). I find my biggest loses are in Army points and a lot of those you can't prevent-PI, Hong Kong, and in my opinion DEI and Singapore (since I think you need to slow him down by fighting for these). Garrison rear areas so he can't get easy points late in 42. Also, husband your resources and prepare to launch some offensives late summer/early autumn '42 to take back some higher point areas and kill some of his army to get points.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (12/4/2004 2:26:03 AM)

Remember to recheck your first turn.[8|]



RUPD3658 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/23/2005 4:27:51 AM)

Bump for the noobies



bradfordkay -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/23/2005 6:43:31 AM)

A couple of points to add, valid mainly for playing the AI.

When trying to get ships out of the Philippines, I find that 1 or 2 ship convoys have a much better chance at escape. The larger task forces will gather more attention. I expect to lose 2 to 4 ships out of Naga. You're going to have enemy forces in Naga quickly, so you don't have a lot of leeway in waiting to fill those ships. However, there's the Japanese CVL (Ryujo?) TF that lies SE of Legaspi waiting to feed your ships to the fishes, thus I expect to lose a few of those ships.

Don't waste the effort to send an HQ to Bataan in hopes of bringing in enough supplies that the Corregidor unit will fire at passing TFs. They'll only fire at AI TFs that are invading Bataan. If you move USAFFE to Bataan, then the CD unit in Manila won't have enough supplies to defend itself when invaded a month later.

You can sneak in to Manila/Bataan the occaisional single ship supply TF, espeically in December/January. By February they might still get there, but are usually sunk before they fully unload.

I believe that against the AI, it is definitely worthwhile to send Force Z to contest the Khota Bharu landings. Even if the results are bad, the Japanese surface combat forces have to return to base for more ammunition. In games where I didn't send Force Z, I lost far more of my Malaysian AF to attacks on the SCTFs rather than on the Transport TFs. Didn't sink as many transports either. When I send Force Z, the transports are left uncovered for a while.

I like to send the extra Dutch forces (those smaller garrisons and base forces that are scattered about) to start building and holding PM and Milne Bay. I think that if they're built up early enough, they can be held (at least against the AI!).



EUBanana -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/23/2005 3:06:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

The reason I move B-17s to India is:

The Allies will inevitably win in the long run if they can avoid losing in the short run. I don't think I can _lose_ the war in Lunga or Rabaul. Eventually I will crush both (or ignore them and sail an Invincible Armada straight to Saipan in early 1944 or similar).

But I worry I could lose the war in India in 1942.


I think Dacca is a great B-17 base. You can supply China from there, hit anything as far south as Rangoon, and its inland so the IJN can't bombard it. And you can have plenty of aviation support there no worries.



tsimmonds -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/23/2005 3:13:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

The reason I move B-17s to India is:

The Allies will inevitably win in the long run if they can avoid losing in the short run. I don't think I can _lose_ the war in Lunga or Rabaul. Eventually I will crush both (or ignore them and sail an Invincible Armada straight to Saipan in early 1944 or similar).

But I worry I could lose the war in India in 1942.


I think Dacca is a great B-17 base. You can supply China from there, hit anything as far south as Rangoon, and its inland so the IJN can't bombard it. And you can have plenty of aviation support there no worries.

I very unhappily agree with this, being at present on the receiving end[:@]. Damn you, Halsey![:'(][;)]



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/23/2005 6:43:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Hopefully my PBEM opponent isn't reading this... hehe

1. Move every engineer unit you can to Palembang/Balikpapan/Kendari etc... When captured, these units will damage the facilities there.

2. A trick to get ships out of the PI region: Send ships EAST. At start, there are no Japanese naval attack aircraft based in Iwo Jima, Marcus, etc. And no LR Recon either. Sending single ship task forces through this gap works like a charm because most Japanese players don't bother building that area up yet. Have them head to a way point and return to Midway/PH/Seattle. An added bonus is that if KB is in that area, their search/strike aircraft will tip you off. You may lose some of these ships, but you'll know which direction KB went after the PH strike. Invaluable info.


OK with 1 but as a Japanese player I have the solution for 2. I send the two CS that are in the Legaspi invasion force in this area. Away from any Allied fighter, Jakes and Petes sink all the Allied planes going there. And the two CS have nothing else to do at this time.



Hornblower -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/23/2005 8:48:31 PM)

For my part, and this is in very broad strokes. I send the ships in manila- including the subs- south in onsies and twosies. As after the 3rd day or so, there is no allied aircover left. Which brings me to point number two. Whatever p-40’s an b-17’s that are left I move south to mindanowa, have them fight for there. Once the end is near, move them to Darwin. I try to keep islands south open so I can hop the planes and ships down. Don’t pay to much for Singapore. Fight as long as you can, but don’t send in extra troops. Its good money following bad. I move the POW and Repulse out. The ijn is too strong in the area, and your sorely lacking in cap. I use the PBY’s to save what I can, but not before I try to make the Japanese pay for what they take. In a nut shell I fight a delaying action. Use the units in the DEI to try to delay if not hold, the IJA/IJN, while I position the rest of my forces to face the Japanese once they move on.



fabertong -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/23/2005 8:57:38 PM)

Hornblowers strategy is sound, I'ts very important to island hop the fighter groups from clark and manila to Oz...... as we learned in UV fighter cover can save the day at N.G. plus you can upgrade them once in OZ.



Gem35 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/24/2005 3:46:21 AM)

Lotsa good advice here folks , In my game against the AI I have fallen back to a triangle of bases to act as my perimeter. Koepang, Darwin and Ambonia. Koepang is maxed out at 4 port 6 airbase and 9 forts, has 100k fuel and 200k supplies from Karachi transports. All of my Dutch subs operate from there as well as the RN. Darwin acts as a fighter/bomber hub to trade out attrited planes from Koepang. Koepang's Airforce hammers anything and everything spotted by my patrols. I also maxed out PM's airbase and Rabaul remains intact as I have managed to re inforce with the bird forces and a marine div. from west coast. Tarawa is a giant supply depot/springboard agaisnt kwajaelein(sp). PM, Rabaul, Koepang,Darwin and Ambonia all have Air and ground HQ's. It's from these bases that I will launch my counters against the Japs. All of this has been accomplished by March 42. Looks like by late summer I can start some serious offensives. The biggest ship I have lost so far is a CL other than British withdraw rules. Some of my more interesting battles have taken place on Kendari as I have managed to land 3 tank brigades and they are having a field day against the Infantry squads the Japs keep pushing ashore. Gotta love this game [:)]



philabos -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (2/24/2005 4:26:07 AM)

I have placed the R Class BB's on a shuttle from Diamond Harbor to bombard IJA forces at Akyab. Every once in awhile one takes a torp, but between them and the CA's have been successful in keeping the IJA mostly to bombardment attacks. I took a chance and placed the 18th UK Divsion along with many ENG's in Akyab and they have built the palce up to Fort level 9 along with Airfield 6 .
Early on occupied the Andamans with the Malay Brigade evacuees from Singapore. The Swordfish attacks from there have been devestating on the IJN supply trying to reach Rangoon. It is also a sub base with 7-8 units. Also built up Nicobar. The IJA is kept off balance in north central Burma by failing to take Akyab and misc Brit units re-taking Mandalay now and then.
It's May 42 and 2 Brit Bgdes are landing at Sabang in Sumatra.
Fairly pleased with this theater. Of course its against the AI and if KB shows up I'm toast. Fortunately KB has been fixated on a still Allied Timor - reinforced from US. The Japanese have fairly well been stopped at Gili Gili (very historical) and Port Moresby has 2 Aussie Divs - don't think the Japanese will be visiting there anytime soon.
US 24th Div occupied Guadalcanal early on and haven't been bothered much. USMC Divs are coming to South Pacific now.
Have been very conservative with the CV's but they have gotten in some licks in New Guinea taking out an IJN bombardment force. Almost lost Hornet to a sub attack - she will be in Brisbane for a long time. The RN CV's scurry near the Andamans from Trincomalee but never within range of Japanese air. They spotted an IJN AP force (escorted only by a PG). HMS Glasgow and two DD's detached and caught them - so much for the Imp Guards Div - but a human player would never make that mistake.

Seem to have them stopped everywhere but haven't started the return trip except landing at an unoccupied Sabang. The IJA/IJN did lose in their effort to take Gili Gili.
.



RUPD3658 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/1/2005 11:23:47 PM)

**bump**



Halsey -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/1/2005 11:46:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

The reason I move B-17s to India is:

The Allies will inevitably win in the long run if they can avoid losing in the short run. I don't think I can _lose_ the war in Lunga or Rabaul. Eventually I will crush both (or ignore them and sail an Invincible Armada straight to Saipan in early 1944 or similar).

But I worry I could lose the war in India in 1942.


I think Dacca is a great B-17 base. You can supply China from there, hit anything as far south as Rangoon, and its inland so the IJN can't bombard it. And you can have plenty of aviation support there no worries.

I very unhappily agree with this, being at present on the receiving end[:@]. Damn you, Halsey![:'(][;)]


I like moving as many heavy bombers to India at the start, because it really pisses them off.[:D]



mogami -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 12:02:32 AM)

Hi, As Allies I fight like the devil in SRA (Java) and run everywhere else.
I would not dream of trying a carrier battle before I upgraded my CV and their escorts (So not before May 1942)
I let the Japanese have where ever they want as long as I don't lose material (except SRA I kiss every LCU goodbye on Dec 7 and make them fight. Removing even small parts makes what you leave behind easier for Japanese to kill. I will however use subs/flying boats to rescue units that have been pushed out of the base they were defending.
I don't care about air to air ratios as long as I am killing Japanese in return. (4 to 1 5 to 1 I don't care before 1942 is over I will be killing more then I lose provided I start killing a few right away. 5xA6M2 in exchange for 40xHurricane is a swap I will make as often as the Japanese accept.
Try to get at least 1 surface battle inside SRA as soon as possible that favors you. This will slow the Japanese player down and give your ships experiance. Just don't try to fight battles with inexperiance ships against even (in ship number) odds because the Japanese TF commanders and ship experiance will produce slaughters of your ships.
The RN can fight and win provided the TF is not hampered by the lower level Dutch and USN ships. All low experiance ships should move to safe waters and then steam about training. (I run from SF to PH or SF to Dutch Harbor from Darwin to Perth from Sydney to Wellington) Ships gain a point or two each time. (the 15-20 points gained here in night fighting make a whale of a difference in those first USN/Dutch night surface battles)

Towards the end of summer 1942 I go hunting for IJN CV with my CV (3 TF) After that I look for a place where the Japanese have over extended. (anyone ever see a Japanese player who was not over extended at some point by Sept 1942?) I invade and build my new base to the max while being prepared to defeat any Japanese reaction. (don't go if you can't smash the reaction) (If you can't smash the reaction at one place divert it to another before going in. By late 1942 any base that you station 100+ AC at with a surface TF to protect is safe from any Japanese reaction except by air and that is a good way to get back the points you gave Japan with those early 4-1 and 5-1 trades.
Then I select a new over extended location and repeat. (this is the story for the rest of the war only as Japan grows weaker I can divide my forces into more operations and gather speed)



spence -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 12:48:29 AM)

I haven't got a wealth of experience in PBEM (1 scen 15) but on turn 1 I formed as many 2 PT boat TFs as numbers permitted and flooded the area 2-3 hexes away from PH with them (concentrating on an arc from NW thru NE). Managed two intercepts against the KB and though they didn't tag any CVs they did score on a pair of DDs which evidently convinced my opp that KB should go home forthwith. So at least I didn't get plastered until KB ran out of sorties.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 1:14:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami
Towards the end of summer 1942 I go hunting for IJN CV with my CV (3 TF) After that I look for a place where the Japanese have over extended. (anyone ever see a Japanese player who was not over extended at some point by Sept 1942?)


I never over extend as IJN except in game vs YOU. And that is simply because you didn't do anything to stop me, and sent invitations in the email. This I think is one of two mistakes you did in that game, but who knows, maybe I talk crazy and live to regret this later... [X(]

O.



mogami -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 2:47:59 AM)

Hi, Japanese sitting on bases do not bother me as long as I retain the abilty to retake them when I choose to do so. I think it much worse to lose forces in hopeless defense where I then have to wait for further reinforcements before I have offensive power.
The Japanese are a tidal wave. They will at some point run out of steam. The trick is simply not to drown in that period they are on rampage. Japan does not have enough force to defend half of what they need to take just to defend the Home Islands.
If they go too far they will do a lot of work for the Allied player.
What happens when the Japanese can't move ships to their own bases because of Allied air control? They can fly the airunits out but the LCU will be stranded. I let the Japanese pick where their self guarding POW camps will be.



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 3:30:26 AM)

Good thread. I do alot of these to try too hang in there as the allied player. One area is keeping your supply lines open against a aggressive jap player early on.[:D]



Mike Solli -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 5:31:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

**SNIP**



Mogami, why in the world are you telling these Allied wannabees that kind of stuff? You're not going to the light side on me, are you?[:(][&:]



Mike Scholl -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 6:44:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

So let me get this straight:

This group advises that I put all my DEI/PI engineers in rubber boats and float them into Yokahama so I can tell (from the number of explosions occuring in the vicinity) when the KB arrives home.
And so their "heirs and assignees" can rebuild more units with the same name.
Memo to self: Stay out of rubber boats if you are a Dutch engineer.


NO..., the advice was to send units/ships from the PHILIPPINES due east (not North). No Dutch in the PI, and plenty of actual transports (not rubber boats.). About the only Japanese assets East of the PI are those at Palau..., so this is not bad advice. And if you should lose a couple of partial units in discovering that KB has moved into this area, it probably is worth it to pin down it's whereabouts.



Raverdave -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 6:50:08 AM)

Just to add my oar to the water.

Build up Timor??? Nah, it is a wast of time and effort, better to use what limited LCUs you have for Darwin. Timor in early'42 is just a tad too far north from OZ to effectivly covered by either fighters or bombers, but with the Japs in Kendari and Ambonia (S?) Timor is a sitting duck.

PM Get in fast and hard with as much as you can. Pull the CD units from Hobart/Melbourne and send them to PM. Same goes for any spare infantry units and engineers. Build up the airfield/Fort/port in that order and whack a few hundred mines there as well. It is harder to take PM back later in the war (didn't any of you play UV?) so spend the time and effort to hold it, even at the expense of Nomeau.
(As a side note I still don't understand Jap fanboys obcession with Nomeau, it is a waste of time and effort for the IJN unless you are thinking of moving further south to take NZ)



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 6:57:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave
(As a side note I still don't understand Jap fanboys obcession with Nomeau, it is a waste of time and effort for the IJN unless you are thinking of moving further south to take NZ)


I'll answer for myself. For some inexplicable reason, Noumea is rated humungous 1200 points for Allies. With modest building effort it's easy grows to 1900. If IJN palyer goes for auto victory, this means he has to take ~7500 VP worth of points *somewhere* if Allied player still holds Noumea on 1/1/43, to compensate.

Of course this is impossible, so taking Noumea is required to get AV.

I don't care for Noumea normally unless I think (or hope) there might be tiny possibility of winning on AV (which is perfectly legitimate way to play IMO).Then I simply need to deny Allied player those points that's all.

O.



Raverdave -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 7:05:42 AM)

Ahhhhh ! V Points ! I hate VPs ! WW2 was total war, not a war of points. You won when the other guy was crushed. Simple and to the point.



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 12:03:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Ahhhhh ! V Points ! I hate VPs ! WW2 was total war, not a war of points. You won when the other guy was crushed. Simple and to the point.


I disagree with you, at one point the war is won or lost and you don't have to kill all Americans or all Japanese for that. By the way there is a difference in winning the WITP game (that should be possible for both sides) and winning the war, that should be almost impossible for Japan.... even if the Allied player makes a lot of mistakes.

I have no problems with the VP value of most places in the game except Noumea. It has no political or economical importance for any of the powers struggling for the Pacific. The only reason I can find for his high value is that WITP developpers wanted players to fight in SW Pacific and so set a juicy target here...

Noumea should be valued 10 times less points at least and so will be only one Allied base among other. And for Japanese eventually a step on the way to S Australia or New Zealand, where the real political targets are, and these are rightly worth a lot of points.



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 2:43:23 PM)

Don't waste the B-17s in the Philippines on anti-shipping strikes (they hit nothing), ground or airfield attacks. Keep them out of harm but in range of oil locations. As soon as the Japanese take an oil location (and Miri can be taken by Paras on turn 1), start bombing the oil - and you will hear Tokyo Rose howling [:D].



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Long) (9/2/2005 3:31:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Don't waste the B-17s in the Philippines on anti-shipping strikes (they hit nothing), ground or airfield attacks. Keep them out of harm but in range of oil locations. As soon as the Japanese take an oil location (and Miri can be taken by Paras on turn 1), start bombing the oil - and you will hear Tokyo Rose howling [:D].


Agree 100%. I think the best strategy for the Allied player in winter-spring 1942 is to try to damage as much as possibles the oil (and eventually ressources) in the SRA... that means that the Japanese has to protect them rather than flying offensive operations.



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