RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (Full Version)

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byron13 -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/2/2004 8:04:19 PM)

Sorry, Rob, but I'm not going to allow anyone to cancel me out!!




Kwik E Mart -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/2/2004 8:44:51 PM)

this thread reminds me of how i felt about buying Russo-German War from Schwerpunkt Games. i agonized for months about the timing of when to buy what appeared to me an unfinished release. i finally bought it, but there were so many "show stopper" issues with that game that i took it off the hard drive shortly thereafter and haven't played it since.

i knew i was taking a chance with WITP buying ver1.0 (given my experience with UV), but i figured it was worth the risk. most (IMHO) of the worst issues were eventually fixed in UV, so i guess it just depends on your thresh hold of frustration as to when to purchase.

as for the back and forth on issues in this game, i think it is a little premature to make some of the claims posted on this board with such a small number of data points of games actually played to completion

regards,




DrewMatrix -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/2/2004 9:13:26 PM)

Regarding the original post (that people claim this or that side has a sure win just from the starting conditions):

I suspect that people are saying "The Japanese win all the time by taking China and moving LCUs to the Pacific" etc without actually playing the game to a conclusion. Correct me if I am wrong, but are people conquering China (check), moving LCUs (check) and then _presuming_ the Japanese will win? Or are they actually playing to a 4:1 edge in 1942 etc?

I suspect a lot of these sure wins will sort themselves out in a few hundred turns to an advantage, but not a certainty.




Tanaka -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/2/2004 11:13:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

Regarding the original post (that people claim this or that side has a sure win just from the starting conditions):

I suspect that people are saying "The Japanese win all the time by taking China and moving LCUs to the Pacific" etc without actually playing the game to a conclusion. Correct me if I am wrong, but are people conquering China (check), moving LCUs (check) and then _presuming_ the Japanese will win? Or are they actually playing to a 4:1 edge in 1942 etc?

I suspect a lot of these sure wins will sort themselves out in a few hundred turns to an advantage, but not a certainty.


yes my thoughts exactly!!! not many people have even played to 1943 when the allies will start rampaging. if youve got everything in burma, india, china, russia, you better look out!!!




Onime No Kyo -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/3/2004 12:54:22 AM)

I'm sure no one is asking but here is my input on the topic. I started a '43 capaign against the AI (just to practice amphib ops and such). It plays much differently than scenario 15.

-China is a deadlock! I have made pretty big advances here but if I was playing a human oponent I would have had my @ss handed to me long ago with the chanses I take. At the same time, I can hold off any Japanese attack with no trouble.

-Japanese CV aviation is nonexistent. The fighter complements have been reduced to almost nothing just by encountering the CAP over my bases. I base this observation on the fact that they are now launching unescorted strikes every time they lauch. AI stupidity notwithstanding, I think they really are out of fighters. However, I doubt this would be so if the "cold start" did not assume that IJN airpower had be all but slagged at Midway.

-Allies need MAJOR overkill in land forces to take any base, especially atolls. A landing with 1 Inf. Div. and 1 RCT on Kwajelein was repulsed in 3 days. It took me 4 complete US army Divs. to take the place and all 4 were effectively wrecked when I was done. My landing at Victoria Point with the 72 UK Bde. and 2 UK Div. is being stopped cold by 1 base force. I'm certain that I will take the place sooner or later but the mere fact that I'm having so much trouble is the point. In effect, this has nothing to do with strategy, just simple numbers and game mechanics.

-Night bombing does nothing. I have 4 sqadrons of B-24s bombing Rabaul at night and getting 1-2 airfield hits per night.

-PTs have done nothing. Not only can they not find the targets half the time but if the enemy TF is escorted by DDs, they get slaughtered for no gain. However, they wreak havoc with unescorted transports, just as they should.

-In '43 I already have more Allied CVs than I know what to do with. I am operating 2 CV TFs with 2CVs and 3 CVLs apeice. There is no KB to fight, they do diddly against transports (see my other post in the "Anyone noticed this game is kinda like the U.S.S.R.?" post) and they get nicked just hard enough by LBA to stay away from any major Japanese bases.

In synopsis, there are many other instances I could mention. There are also a few assumptions I am making here. I am playing the AI, not an oponent who is capable of reacting. The situation in '43 from a "cold start" is likely to be very diferent from the one we would see if the game had been played from '41. The AI is not offensive, thus I can make all the moves I want without being afraid that my oponent will hit me "where I 'aint".

Personally, I dont think that too many of these complaints are valid. A few things could be tweaked. However, this game does not have as many "game breakers" as some on this forum would have it beleived. IMHO, I think people should do less complaining and more playing.




Tanaka -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/7/2004 6:42:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

I'm sure no one is asking but here is my input on the topic. I started a '43 capaign against the AI (just to practice amphib ops and such). It plays much differently than scenario 15.

-China is a deadlock! I have made pretty big advances here but if I was playing a human oponent I would have had my @ss handed to me long ago with the chanses I take. At the same time, I can hold off any Japanese attack with no trouble.

-Japanese CV aviation is nonexistent. The fighter complements have been reduced to almost nothing just by encountering the CAP over my bases. I base this observation on the fact that they are now launching unescorted strikes every time they lauch. AI stupidity notwithstanding, I think they really are out of fighters. However, I doubt this would be so if the "cold start" did not assume that IJN airpower had be all but slagged at Midway.

-Allies need MAJOR overkill in land forces to take any base, especially atolls. A landing with 1 Inf. Div. and 1 RCT on Kwajelein was repulsed in 3 days. It took me 4 complete US army Divs. to take the place and all 4 were effectively wrecked when I was done. My landing at Victoria Point with the 72 UK Bde. and 2 UK Div. is being stopped cold by 1 base force. I'm certain that I will take the place sooner or later but the mere fact that I'm having so much trouble is the point. In effect, this has nothing to do with strategy, just simple numbers and game mechanics.

-Night bombing does nothing. I have 4 sqadrons of B-24s bombing Rabaul at night and getting 1-2 airfield hits per night.

-PTs have done nothing. Not only can they not find the targets half the time but if the enemy TF is escorted by DDs, they get slaughtered for no gain. However, they wreak havoc with unescorted transports, just as they should.

-In '43 I already have more Allied CVs than I know what to do with. I am operating 2 CV TFs with 2CVs and 3 CVLs apeice. There is no KB to fight, they do diddly against transports (see my other post in the "Anyone noticed this game is kinda like the U.S.S.R.?" post) and they get nicked just hard enough by LBA to stay away from any major Japanese bases.

In synopsis, there are many other instances I could mention. There are also a few assumptions I am making here. I am playing the AI, not an oponent who is capable of reacting. The situation in '43 from a "cold start" is likely to be very diferent from the one we would see if the game had been played from '41. The AI is not offensive, thus I can make all the moves I want without being afraid that my oponent will hit me "where I 'aint".

Personally, I dont think that too many of these complaints are valid. A few things could be tweaked. However, this game does not have as many "game breakers" as some on this forum would have it beleived. IMHO, I think people should do less complaining and more playing.


very good points.... i also noticed a few of these games that people are complaining about are using multiple day turns. i think if these strategies were used with 1 day turns you would see different stories.




Rob322 -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/7/2004 9:42:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

very good points.... i also noticed a few of these games that people are complaining about are using multiple day turns. i think if these strategies were used with 1 day turns you would see different stories.


I agree with this. It seems odd to me that you buy a game with such a fantastic level of detail (I mean, how many games that cover such a massive theater would let you track EVERY squad of troops, every ship, every plane, even the pilots of those planes?!) and then throw that out the window by running through days at a time.




tanker4145 -> RE: I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth (12/7/2004 9:59:38 PM)

I just started a 2-day a turn PBEM and really like it so far. It's only been 3 or 4 turns, but already I like the feel a lot more then the 1 day turns. Plus, more happens during a single turn so you can get farther into it. Plus you have to use a little more caustion and planning I think since you can't react every day. Of course I'll have to play more to be sure but I think 2 day turns is how I'll probably play from now on and I may give 3 day turns a try.




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