Best of the Best! (Full Version)

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Danny Boy -> Best of the Best! (12/20/2004 8:53:27 PM)

OK boys and girls...
....do we have any female members? ( sorry girls, if there are...I'm new)

Rangers, USMC, Delta, SEAL, RM (Royal Marines, the original commandos), SAS, Spetznaz, to name but a few elite units...who's the best and why? Try to be as unpartisan as possible.

In the UK one might argue the SAS based on reputation, but do you only include large scale actions? In which case you might argue USMC or Rangers for their continued exposure to battle throughout Vietnam? Likewise for the Spetznaz in Afghanistan.

I know we have a fairly diverse mix of nationalities so ...on the basis that I started the thread:-

I will vote for the SAS. Established in Africa in 1942 (?) fought throughout remainder od WW2, Various ops through Suez, Burma and Korea, liaison and 'advisors' to the French and Americans in Indochina (Vietnam) constantly on undercover ops in Northern Ireland since late 60's, opened up the landing areas and forward obs for the Falklands conflict, spec ops in Belize since the 70's, continual anti terror ops in mainland UK since 1970's, advisory capacity to GSG9, COS and DGSE and MOSSAD, various covert joint ops with US forces in S. America, Desert Storm forward obs and again more recently...and if I've forgotten anything my apologies to thos econcerned.

Cheers.



Rhodan -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/20/2004 9:34:51 PM)

SAS and SBS.



KG Erwin -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/21/2004 1:42:26 AM)

Hmm, let me think. Well, everyone knows who my first choice is. All you gotta do is look at my avatar and signature patch. [:D]



Kevin E. Duguay -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/22/2004 12:40:36 AM)

SEALS rule!!! I know one. Both he and his wife are crazy people.
How ever the Brits have a very effective Spec Ops. If they were the originals or not, in the early years they were the best. Don't forget the Canadians!!



Dragoon 45 -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/22/2004 10:01:36 AM)

For assault troops, no one can beat the USMC, for deep reconnaissance USMC Force Recon, for special operations the Seals, for armor operations the Israelis. There are too many mission types and specialized troops to really say who is the best over all.



Danny Boy -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/22/2004 1:24:41 PM)

Kevin and Dragoon you both make valid points...although USMC Force Recon have to live with having 'liberated' Grenada[:D] not exactly up there with 'Desert Storm!

As for the SEALS...well they haven't had that much experience in terms of modern history outside of the major conflicts...at least not in the 'non Hollywood' world, whereas Delta Force has been used on several occasions for counter terrorism ops (best forget Mr Carters debacle eh?).

OK I have to admit that I am biased myself, even though I asked for everyone to be as unbiased as possible, but ...
quote:

There are too many mission types and specialized troops to really say who is the best over all.


This is a good point, and in all fairness the US armed forces have probably got the most elite units as a lot of the regular arms of the forces set up special units for their own use. ie Army Rangers, USMC FR, Navy SEAL et al. Of course every country has its' own elite units...or what they perceive to be elite[;)], but overall the SAS be they Cannucks, Aussies or Brits are the ONLY group who are all encompasing. For instance you wouldn't find a Ranger doing a HALO jump or attaching limpet mines to the hull of a ship (I know we have the SBS too ..but humour me), you wouldn't find a SEAL on Search a & Destroy ops in Afghanistan, and you wouldn't find USMCFR on anti terror ops...you begin to see my point?

So, sorry guys, all mentioned so far are excellent units in their own specialised fields...but no cigar (yet).

Cheers!



Dragoon 45 -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/24/2004 10:02:20 AM)

In the case of the Seals they have indeed been used on search and destroy missions in Afghanistan. The Seals are trained to do just about any mission you can name that involves small units. I just returned from Afghanistan a little over three months ago and saw reports about the Seals doing OPs in the mountains. Compared to World War II American forces, today's U.S. military would all be considered elite due to the training they have received. I have never been a Seal, but I did serve for a while in Force Recon and Anglico in the USMC in the late 70's working with a lot of Spec Ops type units and after a two year break in service joined the Army and was a light infantry man until I retired a month ago. I was very disappointed when the USMC decided to jump on the special ops bandwagon a few months ago. To me this takes away part of their heritage and identity. They are trying to become Seals and SF which is not how they are organized or trained to fight. I know this will start a fire storm but in all actuality the Rangers are just the Army's version of the USMC, assault troops pure and simple willing to storm hell with a bucket of water.



KG Erwin -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/24/2004 10:43:43 PM)

A salute to you, Dragoon45. [&o] The argument about the Marines getting into the Spec Ops business has been going on since the early 40s. The 1942-43 Raider units were opposed on the grounds that ALL USMC were considered elite, so specialized units were unnecessary. However, President Roosevelt was in support of the Raider idea, so that was that. They only lasted two years, though, and they (and the Paras) were folded into "regular" line infantry in 1944.



Kevin E. Duguay -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/25/2004 2:04:11 AM)

Sorry to both of you Erwin and Dragoon, but the better trained the less casualties and more casualties for the enemy. If every Marine were a SEAL,,,,, well God help anyone that stands against them!



KG Erwin -> RE: Best of the Best! (12/27/2004 7:06:25 AM)

Hey, this forum is about SPWaW, so let's look at the best bang- for-buck infantry units in the game. There are many notable selections, but look at the USMC 1942 Raider Squad--for 28 purchase points you get Springfield 1903s, a BAR, 4 satchel charges and hand grenades. Look closer, though--- the 1942 Yugoslav partisans cost just 22 points, and have rifles, a Breda LMG, Molotovs, and hand grenades. There are some tough fighters hidden in the OOBs--you just have to look for them.

My favorites though are the USMC F* squads--the 13-man squads with M1 Garands, BARs x3, a flamethrower team and hand grenades. These guys and the F+ squads ( with satchel charges) are the ones who took Mt Suribachi and put up the flag ( with some help from an attached medic) that resulted in the most famous USMC photograph of WWII. l



Danny Boy -> RE: Best of the Best! (1/4/2005 6:28:30 PM)

quote:

If every Marine were a SEAL,,,,, well God help anyone that stands against them!



....and God help the US Taxpayer!

If memory serves me correctly, the selection process for SEAL's is similar to that of the SAS in that only volunteers/recommendations from all service arms are entertained, and all have to fulfil examination and training processes to 'one' of the highest training standards in the world. No government in the world could afford such quality from boot camp upwards.

And in response to KG... I love the Raider groups, and have had much success with them of late...well those and my specially annotated SS Spec Ops groups[;)]

Cheers!



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