Leader Bug (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Leader Bug


I have not experianced the leader bug.
  9% (34)
Have using Windows 98
  0% (3)
Have using Windows XP
  17% (66)
Have using Windows ME
  1% (5)
Playing as Japanese
  6% (24)
Playing as Allied
  17% (66)
Matrix Scenario
  17% (66)
Modified Scenario
  4% (17)
PBEM
  8% (32)
AI
  14% (54)


Total Votes : 367
(last vote on : 1/5/2005 7:00:33 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


mogami -> Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:15:31 AM)

Hi, A simple poll. As many as true.
Post anything I forgot (only have 10 slots)




WiTP_Dude -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:17:38 AM)

No, I've never seen it. I don't use the auto disband option though either.




mogami -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:18:58 AM)

Hi, I use the auto disband but only for damaged ships and the TF normally does not have a leader other then ships CO.




kellyc -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:20:07 AM)

Never seen it.

OS: WINME

Kelly




mogami -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:21:15 AM)

Hi, ME here as well.




WiTP_Dude -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:25:29 AM)

Windows 2000

WiTP v1.21




Mike Wood -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:46:19 AM)

Hello...

Are you polling for games started in version 1.40 or later or are you polling for games started before version 1.40?

Thanks...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, A simple poll. As many as true.
Post anything I forgot (only have 10 slots)




mogami -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 11:59:32 AM)

Hi, Yike another good point.
If you have had this occur is the game
1.40 pure
older version updated.
If older was bug pre 1.40 update.


One major problem in testing is the tester has to use the most current version. It is possible to produce a bug in a "hybrid" game that would never exist in a pure version game.
For Mike this means only games began in 1.40 can produce the required save he needs to fix.




kellyc -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 12:15:57 PM)

I'm at 1.40.

WinME.

Game started with 1.40

Sincerely
Kelly




mucky -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 2:25:40 PM)

The only bugs ive encountered are:

1) My allied TF suddenly recieving a jap commander! [X(]

...and...

2) The commander called ,WO (Not sure if it was a bug)


Windows XP, started new game with 1.4.


These two things haven't wavered my enjoyment of the game!




Djordje -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 2:33:44 PM)

XP SP2
PBEM as Japan
Started as 1.3, now 1.4

I've seen few dozens of leaders changed, just went through ALL of my ships last turn, spending several hundred PPs to replace fake leaders with normal ones.
I've noted several things:
- My warships were ok, none of them had leader changed, only merchants (AP,AK,TK,AO), MSW and ML ships had new fake leaders (not from original pool)
- Most of the new leaders were Japanese, though some of them were allied
- Allied leaders were about average and above average (45-70 leadership/inspiration), Japanese leaders were above average and brilliant (55-90 leadership/inspiration), and all of them (both Jap and allied) were described as carrier leaders
- Whenever I replaced fake leader with one from the original pool the fake leader dissapeared, he never entered pool and was nowhere to be found
- I think that MLs can be used to track at least some of the leader bug. MLs use very small leader pool with rank of ENS (or something like that, not in the game at the moment), so when the leader is changed with fake one it is easy to notice, as fake one will be Capt or higher. There are not too many ML ships, and pool for them is about one screen of skippers, not that much
- My admirals pool had some issues too, Ozawa (carrier TF leader) is nowhere to be found, Yamaguchi and Abe are ok, but Yamada O is strange. He is currently in command of Air Combat TF, but I can select him from pool to command another TF. It is the same leader twice, with the same description and leadership/inspiration values. I've put him in command of some ASW TF and had him command both at the same time, but I exited without saving so who knows what would have happened if the turn got generated. It is PBEM and I didn't want to risk losing him...
Forgot to mention, there were some majors and colonels commanding AKs too.




Nomad -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 3:22:48 PM)

Mog, I submitted to the poll before reading Mikes comment.

XP sp2

Sen 15 un miodified, started as 1.3 and updated to 1.4. PBEM game

As Allies I have found a COL in command of a CA. I have a number of suspicious looking CPTs. MOst of them are in
charge of APS, AKS etc. and they have ratings like 30/35. They could be right, I just do not know. I haven't looked
at all units to see if there are other leader problems.




BPRE -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 4:38:55 PM)

Hi,

Maybe quite a stupid question but could we have a description of how the 'leader bug' looks like? I think I know but a detailed description on how to recognise it might help people who hasn't seen or bothered about it to detect if they have a problem.
From different postings I gather that it is when ship captains (leaders) all of a sudden are replaced by a different leader. Quite often from the other side. It happens mostly to the Allies.

Some details that I think might be helpful in tracking the fault:
Is it only happening to ship leaders or to TF leaders also.
Was the TF auto created (I get the impression that you, Mogami, are very much into details and would guess that you always handpick your ships and since you haven't seen it..) or did you handpick the ships.
Was the leader assigned by you or did you let the AI choose him?

Some of the questions above might seem stupid but I haven't bothered about the leaders in my own games (I'm only playing the AI so I can live with bad performances among my units) and I have no experience in PBEM games so I hope you understand.

Maybe you could have a chat with Mike and the other developers about a set of information that they think would help them in narrowing down the problem. Both on how to detect it and what info they need that isn't available in a save file.

Best regards
BPRE




Halsey -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 5:01:37 PM)

WinXP, game upgrade to 1.4, standard scenario.
Two that I've caught so far. A Dutch LT in charge of US sub. A IJA Maj in charge of? Can't remember, there're both dead now.[:D]

I never auto form or disband. No AI control or auto anything.
Haven't lost a TF commander. Once I spend the PP's I always keep that officer in charge of a TF. I rotate ships in and out to keep the TF commander active. This is something I do to stop swapping the best TF commanders with fleets that are in combat halfway around the world in one turn. That's something that I consider a problem too, leader swapping. This goes for LCU's also.




mucky -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 5:28:15 PM)

Quick question: Could this be considered as the leader bug?

Because im starting to lose leaders fast!

[image]local://upfiles/14672/Xv649581891.jpg[/image]




Oliver Heindorf -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 5:31:59 PM)

W2k I use only. Does this matter much regarding to the *bug* ( I have never seen it btw. )

No ME ( kiddie OS )
No XP ( Spyware from MS included )
No 98 ( too old )




2ndACR -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 5:57:30 PM)

I have seen it in a fresh 1.4 PBEM game using Lemurs 4.0 playing as the Japanese.

I use ME.




Admiral Scott -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 6:49:52 PM)

I have XP and have the leader bug.

Could this be a Windows XP problem?




mogami -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 7:29:38 PM)

Hi, In a PBEM game I wonder if it is the computer/Operating system the Japanese use that matters most? Or does the bug occur during orders phase?




von Murrin -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 8:13:00 PM)

v1.40, Win2k

Have seen it as Japanese and Allied in both PBEM and AI.

It's mostly minor units or backwater locations as nothing I've checked from turn to turn has had the substitution that I can use to send in a save.




pasternakski -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 8:27:01 PM)

I posted in the other thread before I saw this one. My most recent games, both PBEM and AI, are v. 1.30 patched to 1.40, so I know that they are not helpful. I have XP, both of the people I have been playing against have XP. Mike Wood's work on 1.40 seems to have helped (I no longer lose carrier captains or TF commanders, and I can get rid of the dreaded WO 0/0s when they show up). When I was playing before 1.30, the problem was so severe that by mid-42, I was in danger of having the entire US Navy being run by Japanese pilots.




mogami -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 8:39:12 PM)

Hi, Are the non XP players running the Japanese or Allies and if Allies what OS are the Japanese players using?




kellyc -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 8:43:40 PM)

PBEM

Updated to 1.4, started under 1.4
Playing as Japanese with WINME.
Opponent is using 98 I believe.
Haven't seen any leader bugs yet but I haven't talked it over with my opponent.
You have to understand we're both 'Nick the new guys' so not overly sure what
to look for.
Kelly




2ndACR -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 8:43:47 PM)

I play nothing but the Japanese side. I am using ver 1.4 and running it using WinME.

2 PBEM games are fresh starts under 1.4 using Lemurs 4.0
1 PBEM game continued from 1.21 using Lemurs 3.1 Beta

The fresh games are with Ron and Pzb
Continued game with Panzer Hortland.

Ron has seen the leader bug already, both Ron and Pzb report wild differences in playback
Have heard nothing from Panzer on anything wrong yet.

I have had units vanish with Ron and Panzer.




dtravel -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 8:44:42 PM)

W98SE, as Allies vs. Jap AI, standard Matrix scenario.




dday -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 9:37:50 PM)

quote:

The only bugs ive encountered are:

1) My allied TF suddenly recieving a jap commander!

...and...

2) The commander called ,WO (Not sure if it was a bug)


Windows XP, started new game with 1.4.



I was using Win ME, now using XP. I found alot of problems with Me, but now its the leaders bug.




Tankerace -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 9:55:01 PM)

Win XP Pro

WitP v 1.40

Have found it bad (although not nearly as bad in 1.3) in;

Official Scenario 15 and 16
Modded Scenario 15 and 16
Test verisions of War Plan Orange

I have found that I really now only lose leaders when a TF seperates at sea due to damaged ships. When it happens, it replaces the TF leader.

EDIT: I play only Allied, but when testing Japan in War Plan Orange I have still found it, although not to the same extent.

Also, under new 1.4 games, leader bugs seem, instead of replacing with Majors or 1LTs, are replacing with unkown Staff Officers more than anything.

EDIT 2: Also, I never use auto anything.




pompack -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 9:56:41 PM)

It's going to be certain combinations probably.

1. Never Experienced
2. XP Home
3. Allied & Japanese
4. Matrix Scenarios
5. AI only
6. All patch versions
7. Leader selection:
7a. When leaders important, auto selection ON and then change leader if needed (rare)
7b. When leaders not importent, auto selection OFF then never change leader




mogami -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 10:13:30 PM)

Hi, I never use auto leader. When a new TF is formed changing to a new leader is free so if TF requires more then a ship CO to command I pick the leader when I make the TF.
I do not assign leaders to TF composed only of transports and escorts.
Once I form a TF that I assign a leader to the TF is maintained (ships may come or go but the TF remains) If I do disband a TF and then reform it later I assign the old leader again (unless he has really screwed up a few times)
I don't auto anything but that is only because early in game I worry about the enemy. After I have a secure route between bases I form a TF assign a mission (normally supply runs) and then set to auto control. But these TF never have leaders other then ship CO.

When flagship of TF is sunk the leader is considered killed. You may get a message "so and so killed" or you may not.

If you leave "Leader Auto select" ON then everytime a TF is formed a leader is selected from pool to command TF. I don't want Admirals commanding solo AK or PC or what not and then have them exposed to being lost if ship sunk by sub or other enemy attack.
That is reason I leave it set to off

I will claim this feature as one of mine. Before every TF was assigned a leader and I had to remove flag officers from TF where I didn't want them. I cried to Mike Wood and he installed this option for me.




jwilkerson -> RE: Leader Bug (12/31/2004 10:43:50 PM)

Hum - didn't know about the free choice after forming ... I had been paying for the important ones when forming until I found the auto leader button ... but I've been clicking it every time I form a TF ( where I care ). And I started noticing the bug right after that - at least for TF. This wouldn't seem to explain how allied leaders get into Japanese air units though.




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