Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (Full Version)

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SeaWolF K -> Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 3:07:54 AM)

At the risk of reigniting the land combat debate, how does one repulse an invasion by a Japanese division. Case in point, just started playing my brother PBEM (he just got the game) and he invaded Naga with the 16 div into 2 PA divs. I rushed 2 more divisions to Naga and they arrived in conjunction with a Japanese shock attack (0-1 odds and 1800 Japanese losses). Three turns latter I counter attack and get 3-1 odds, the next turn 4-1 odds, the next 3-1 (air strikes) (inflicting a grand total of 450 losses over three days) and on the next he lands two more divisions and I get 0-1 and the next turn am evicted at 2-1 odds. Is it possible to exploit a short term weakness on the Japanese or if they get a division ashore is it best just to pull back and make him attack me?[&:][&:][&:]



DrewMatrix -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 3:11:12 AM)

Wild! You mean he took troops out of the Phillipines and invaded Japan early in the long campaign game?

Anyhow:

What scenario are you playing and is this version 1.40?



mogami -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 3:14:05 AM)

Hi, Beezle Naga is in the Philippines between Legaspi and Manila.
Seawolf a Japanese division is around 400 assault points in value. Most likely the first assault was before the entire Division was ashore. Once 2 more arrived it was "turn out the lights time"
Also units become disrupted on ship. However there are several Japanese units with 100 prepartion for Naga so his units were more prepared to fight in that location then yours.



DrewMatrix -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 3:18:41 AM)

Oops (blush)

Yes, sitting on the beach and counter-attacking immediately (when you first see troops landing) can sometimes drive the invader back before he unloads much of his unit.

The solution to this for the invader is not to use the minimum number of ships, but to use many ships to load the assault unit so they (combined) will unload most or all of the unit in the first turn. They can carry supplies as much of the rest of their cargo to unload later.



Hornblower -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 3:27:37 AM)

As the Allies, i have never been able to toss a landing back into the ocean if its anything greater then a RCT. Once, and Just once, a Surface TF of CL's and DD's managed to intercept the invasion force just as they entered the hex and put a serious hurt on them. BUT they managed to get sufficent troops ashore to hold, and what i guess to be a brigade landed the next day. 2 days after that i lost the base and most of my troops.. the rest retreated 1 hex to be elimated soon there-after..



mogami -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 3:31:38 AM)

Hi, Recently one of my oppenents no doubt used to Japanese landing paras to take the empty base at Linguyen moved a considerable body of troops there.
A few days later I witnessed the PI troops make a mass attack against........88,000 Japanese soldiers. (I didn't land a trick para unit to take the base. I landed a real force with 3 divisions more sitting offshore) He needed two attacks before he figured out that it was not a toy landing but a real landing. I drove him out of the hex on the third day.



Drongo -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 4:48:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaWolF K
Case in point, just started playing my brother PBEM (he just got the game) and he invaded Naga with the 16 div into 2 PA divs. I rushed 2 more divisions to Naga and they arrived in conjunction with a Japanese shock attack (0-1 odds and 1800 Japanese losses). Three turns latter I counter attack and get 3-1 odds, the next turn 4-1 odds, the next 3-1 (air strikes) (inflicting a grand total of 450 losses over three days)....


Did the Japanese unit have any retreat path open to it when you attacked it?

If not, it would probably explain a lot.



SeaWolF K -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 1:42:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaWolF K

At the risk of reigniting the land combat debate, how does one repulse an invasion by a Japanese division. Case in point, just started playing my brother PBEM (he just got the game) and he invaded Naga with the 16 div into 2 PA divs. I rushed 2 more divisions to Naga and they arrived in conjunction with a Japanese shock attack (0-1 odds and 1800 Japanese losses). Three turns latter I counter attack and get 3-1 odds, the next turn 4-1 odds, the next 3-1 (air strikes) (inflicting a grand total of 450 losses over three days) and on the next he lands two more divisions and I get 0-1 and the next turn am evicted at 2-1 odds. Is it possible to exploit a short term weakness on the Japanese or if they get a division ashore is it best just to pull back and make him attack me?[&:][&:][&:]



A little clarification, there was no valid retreat path for the japanese to take (all valid hexes were under allied control. The attack odds were Japanese attack 0-1 (D+1), Allied attacks 3-1(D+3), 4-1(turn D+4), 3-1(turn D+5), 0-1(turn D+6) and then Japanese attack 2-1(turn D+7). The Japanese landed on turn D (which was like 10 Dec) and then again on turns D+6, D+7 and I am assuming he has continued to land more since then) and I got lucky in that he was reduced in asualt strength from 400ish (He landed the division off of 30 transports) to 200ish after landing (shore defence batteries hurt him greatly approx 900 losses) and his failed shock attack. I was hoping to counter attack and exploit the fact that he was weakened and that reinforcements had not landed (I controled the base until my final retreat) My units involved were the 4th USMC, 31 USA RCT, 41 PA, 51 PA and one of the PS RCT. I called off all attacks as soon as the unloading over the beach message occured.

Oh well, at least my brother confirms the 16th division has 50% of its squads disabled (but no real losses)



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 3:21:28 PM)

Well, you were trying to destroy a Japanese division fully prepared for this hex with second-line troops (except the Marines). You did rather well. Next time, as soon as you see more Japanese troops landing, retreat to a fortified place.

The best an Allied player can is to stop cold an invasion on the beaches, so the Japanese should bring another convoy to the place. Everytime I managed to resist the first landing, I send a swarm of submarines around this base, to hit as most as possible the second wave.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 4:00:51 PM)

Keep in mind here ... You were dealing with a group unloading.

First turn it had no supplies and 25% effectiveness and was probably not even fully off the ships.

Second turn, more unloading

Third turn, more unloading

etc ...

7th turn, supplies showed up and you were toast, resumed 100% strength.

Add to this that the effects of the landing made it highly fatigued.

Against this, your guys continued to get higher and higher fatigue each turn.



Bradley7735 -> RE: Repulsing a early Japanese invasion (1/7/2005 5:17:25 PM)

Mr. Frag and Mogami,

This is a good example of how points for LCU's is kind of messed up. This Japanese division suffered great losses during combat, but no one was killed? In this example, the allied player got one or two points for squads killed, but disabled hundreds. When I'm on the offensive, I don't fear taking any significant LCU losses. If I start with a good LCU, I can always rest it after the battle so I don't take any 'real' losses.

As the allies in 1943, I've taken many atols for only 3 or 4 points of LCU losses and score a lot more for destroyed Japanese troops.

In my opinion, combat should result in a fair number of destroyed squads as well as a larger number of disabled squads.

bc



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