Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor.

Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (Full Version)

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mutterfudder -> Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/13/2005 4:41:48 PM)
I am sick and damn tired of finding messed up things three months into a game that could be easly fixed if there was a in game editor. Iv heard the excuses bout cheating but who the hell am I going to cheat? The AI????? If I could do it myself I would. Come on Matrix don't be selfish with the code or whatever it is that is needed. Thank you

DrewMatrix -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/13/2005 6:46:12 PM)
I have a question, based on experience in other games (not by Matrix). In those other games the save file format was "unreadable" but the professional programmers playing the game had no problem with the savegame data. These guys not only could figure out the format pretty quickly, but generally had software running on their machines that read not the savegame file on the disc but the data as it was loaded into the computer's memory. My question is: Of the people out there who really understand code, how many of you can _already_ read the savegame files? Is this really an issue only for the computer illiterate like myself anyhow?

medicff -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/13/2005 7:26:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Beezle I have a question, based on experience in other games (not by Matrix). In those other games the save file format was "unreadable" but the professional programmers playing the game had no problem with the savegame data. These guys not only could figure out the format pretty quickly, but generally had software running on their machines that read not the savegame file on the disc but the data as it was loaded into the computer's memory. My question is: Of the people out there who really understand code, how many of you can _already_ read the savegame files? Is this really an issue only for the computer illiterate like myself anyhow? That is the question. I am sure some there read code like reading books and are easily able to understand the save games. That is how people make the editors in the first place. [:D] However, unfortunately the key to a good, competitive game is being able to trust your opponent wouldn't even consider this as an option. [:-] This would take all the fun out of playing. Think of all the invisible Doom skins. The strategy culture would degrade to the level of the shooters and cheat for fun. So the less tempting you could make this, the better. Make the files very difficult to read and double check the file with a checksum in game if this could be done. But again are you just making it only available to the computer guru's when you do that?

DrewMatrix -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/13/2005 8:40:18 PM)
You _can_ (as I understand it) make a game uncheatable. VGAPlanets does that, but doing so requires a trusted third party. Each player in VGAP gets (only) the data he can "see" (see, scan, knows from spying, whatever). The player (from that data he legitimately knows) then gives orders. For example he does not "load a ship with 5000 tons of supplies" (if he did a brilliant hacker could hack his player file to put 5000 tons of supplies on the ship, even if there were not 5000 tons of supplies at that base). He instead gives the order "Load 5000 tons of supplies". The difference is that order (to load supplies) is then sent by that player to a third party host who runs the game (but does not play). The host runs a "game turn execution program" that tries to load 5000 tons of supplies (if that is the order). If there are only 2000 tons at that base, only 2000 load. The players can't cheat by seeing data they don't legitimately know because they never get a file with any such data in it. They can't move a ship too fast or load unavailable stuff on the ship because they don't directly move or load, they only request the host program to load. Obviously if the host were to cheat and send the extra data the _host_ has to a player he could. But there are established hosts who run dozens of games at once (you can automate the host to run as soon as the turns are in). Those hosts have established good reputations over the years (which they value). So it is possible to make a cheat proof game by markedly restricting data availlable to players and using a third party who is the only person with the full set of data.

mutterfudder -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/13/2005 8:49:24 PM)
quote: That is the question. I am sure some there read code like reading books and are easily able to understand the save games. That is how people make the editors in the first place. However, unfortunately the key to a good, competitive game is being able to trust your opponent wouldn't even consider this as an option. This would take all the fun out of playing. Think of all the invisible Doom skins. The strategy culture would degrade to the level of the shooters and cheat for fun. So the less tempting you could make this, the better. Make the files very difficult to read and double check the file with a checksum in game if this could be done. But again are you just making it only available to the computer guru's when you Kinda sounds like paranoia to me.

DrewMatrix -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/13/2005 8:56:16 PM)
quote: Kinda sounds like paranoia to me Yes, I too was admiring him for his well developed sense of Paranoia. You can't be too careful . . .

medicff -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/14/2005 1:22:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Beezle quote: Kinda sounds like paranoia to me Yes, I too was admiring him for his well developed sense of Paranoia. You can't be too careful . . . Well, I never claimed not to be paranoid. I live in South Florida, land of scammers and con artists - it just sort of rubs off. [:D]

dtravel -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/14/2005 2:12:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: medicff quote: ORIGINAL: Beezle quote: Kinda sounds like paranoia to me Yes, I too was admiring him for his well developed sense of Paranoia. You can't be too careful . . . Well, I never claimed not to be paranoid. I live in South Florida, land of scammers and con artists - it just sort of rubs off. [:D] If you're not paranoid, you're not experienced. Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you. [:D]

mutterfudder -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/15/2005 12:02:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dtravel quote: ORIGINAL: medicff quote: ORIGINAL: Beezle quote: Kinda sounds like paranoia to me Yes, I too was admiring him for his well developed sense of Paranoia. You can't be too careful . . . Well, I never claimed not to be paranoid. I live in South Florida, land of scammers and con artists - it just sort of rubs off. [:D] If you're not paranoid, you're not experienced. Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you. [:D] LOL[:)]

RevRick -> RE: Damn it!! would someone PLEASE make a in game editor. (1/15/2005 1:17:25 AM)
They're coming to take me away, Ha, Ha; They're coming to take me away, Ho, Ho; To the funny farm where life is beautiful all the tima and I'll be happy to see Those nice young men in their clean white coats, cause They're coming to take me away Ho, ho, hee, hee , ha ha! Life in West Palm Beach.. watch out for them.. Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt. Seriously though, using an in game editor would have prevented me from going berserk when I found that all of my P-40N's wound up in China because I didn't stop them from upgrading. Or all my Hellcats wound up in replacement air groups instead of on the Fleet Bird Farms.

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