How much are 100 objective points really worth?

How much are 100 objective points really worth? (Full Version)

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Hirohito -> How much are 100 objective points really worth? (1/14/2005 6:25:12 PM)
Hi All, I am wondering how much 100 objective points are really worth. There are two considerations to this question. First, in the campaign game scenario the Japanese player starts off the game with several units at 100 objective points. The question for these units is: Are the objective points worth so much that it is counter productive to use these units for other targets? The units that have 100 objective points are aimed at targets in Malaya and PI. If the 100 objective points are really valuable then it may make sense to make these landings even if you plan to redeploy the units almost immediately, because you get a quick tactical combat win and you take over a base that may have strategic considerations later. Although, if these targets were not really part of your strategic plan you now have to garrison them. So that is a tradeoff. Unless you just get the tactical win and then move on. So, the question is, are the 100 objective points that you get for "free" at game start so valuable that you need to have a REALLY good reason to use those units for different targets? The second question is how valuable are the 100 objective points for the attacker vs the additional preparation time accumulating them allowed the defender? There is a tradeoff. If I sit and wait until I get the 100 objective points before I attack, I allow the defender to be dug in a lot more than she would have been. So, does it make sense to sit and wait while I accumulate the 100 objective points or should I go in immediately with 0 objective points? Of course it matters (I think) if the target is going to be attacked by amphibious invasion or by marching there, so we have to ask the question for each case. The third scenario is for targets that are far away, they are your ultimate goal, so setting the objective to those targets doesn't give the allied defender additional prep time, it was going to take you that long to get there anyway, but now you are trading having the long term target as your objective instead of any of the intermediate targets. For example, say you successfully land at Khota Baru and your next target for that division is Mersing, instead of setting Mersing as the objective you set Singapore as the objective, do you gain enough having a high objective number when you reach Singapore to forego having Mersing as the objective for the next assault? Singapore probably isnt a good example, because you will be there before you get 100 objective points, so let's use Chengtu as the example, you probably won't get there before you have accumulated 100 objective points. Thanks for your input. Hirohito

Feinder -> RE: How much are 100 objective points really worth? (1/14/2005 6:49:52 PM)
Obj points certainly benefit the defender. If you're going to garrison someplace that you think will be attacked, you might as well be accumulating Obj points for your current hex. As an attacker, if you know there is a garrison, and you want to attack now, you might as well go in without a lot of prep. As you pointed out, for every turn that the attacker spends collecting obj points, so is the defender (unless he's already at 100). And I believe that Frag has stated that 100 defensive prep points, trumps 100 offensive prep points. But if your offensive op is something you know you can't do right now, but intend to in the future, you might as well start prepping. For example. It's February 1942. IJA has captured Gili-Gili and you know you're going to eventually counterattack there. You can't right now, it's only February. Port Moresby airspace is contested, KB is wandering about at will, and you'd be lucky to get even a few guys on the ground at GG on a good day. But you're figuring you'll try to retake GG in about April. That gives you lots of time to build prep points. You've decided you want to use the the NZ Div (3rd?) in Aukland for the invasion. You might as well set them to prep for GG. If you don't have any other offensive plans for them, or even if they're just garrisoning Aukland or Noumae, they might as well be prepping for the future invasion of GG. If you think Noumea is threatened (and that's where they are), you should be prepping for Noumea obviously. But like I said, if they're just spending time on the beach, waiting for April, you might as well be prepping. And FYI, I think you can double, or perhaps even quadruple your assault strenght from 100 prep points. Haven't really tested this. But it "feels" that about 50 - 60 is a double. And 80ish is maybe triple. Before you get excited, you've still got to take into account for disruption, fatigue, leaders, terrain, and lot of other crap. But prep points can make a difference (esp on defense). To me prep points are like a "free" bonus ot your assualt strenght. It doesn't cost you anything but time to accumulate them. If time is -NOT- on your side (you're the attacker), then as you pointed out, you have to weigh whether you actually have the luxury of accumulating them. -F-

AmiralLaurent -> RE: How much are 100 objective points really worth? (1/14/2005 7:01:48 PM)
Seems to me that 100% prep will double the ASS value of the unit in combat resolution. It is also useful to reduce casualties in landing on enemy hexes. In defensive operations, they are a must. Garnison units should prepare at 100% with the target as their location, and will then train and gain exp. As for offensive operations, I use prep points only on hard, obvious targets. No need to prepare a landing in a location held only by a Base Force, but rather prepare for the big base some hexes behind that I will attack from the land. As Japanese, preparation may also show your long-term plans to your opponent, as Allied sigint is more extensive than the Japanese one and may show wich target an unit is preparing. I so have most Home Defence and Kwantung divisions preparing for possible targets, like Noumea, Hilo, Trincomalee, Darwin, Suva, Midway and so on just to try to confuse my opponent. As for the first turn settings, I change most of them at start. 33rd objective is Rahaeng and it would be a bad idea of the Brits to try to take it from Burma, so objective is immediatly changed to Mandalay. Same things for units scheduled to land in PI. The main battle here will be fought in Clark Field, so it's the objective given to my units in the area. Key of the game is the hability of Japan to continue to advance in late spring 1942, once the historical conquests are done. At this date, Japanese has several options (India, Australia, Noumea and Pacific to be short) and a dozen divisions at his disposal. I will begin to prepare in Feb-Mar 1942 for this phase, with preparation for 3 targets (two main options and a diversion) and will choose what I did later, but will only use (for the offensive phase) the troops with 100% preparation.

anarchyintheuk -> RE: How much are 100 objective points really worth? (1/14/2005 9:44:46 PM)
Haven't played as Allies yet, but I'd imagine I wouldn't do an amphib assault against a Jap base w/o prep.

Nikademus -> RE: How much are 100 objective points really worth? (1/14/2005 11:33:26 PM)
1) Let me give you a real life test example (game wise) to give you an idea of what preperation points mean. If you have two rested Japanese infantry divisions exactly the same in terms of equipment, leadership and experience, and put them on a base like Lunga and have them attack an unentrenched US RCT regiment with zero preperation, you will get the following as an average result. (there is some varience every 2-3 battles) Unit with 100 prep points; odds = 6:1 Unit with 0 prep points; odds = 1:1 If the defender has 100 prep points, the former will get approx 2:1 odds the former will get 0:1 odds Prep points decrease your amphibious landing disablements (just from the act of landing) by 50% if fully preppred as opposed to a unit with no preperation. 50 PP's yields roughly a 25% decrease in landing disablements 2) All other variables being equal, preperation points benefit the defense much more than the attacker. I had more than one result go 0:1 even with no forts when testing the above scenerio even when using the attacker with full prep. 3) This is a judgement call. Much will depend on how tough you think the immediate and/or intermediate objectives will be. If you think they wont be too tough or insurmountable, then go for the long term objective, more so if you think thats where the main line of resistance will be. To use Malaya as an example players often set all units objectives to Singapore since that will usually be the toughest nut to crack but if the defender actually makes a tough fight at a closer city it can make things more difficult for you.

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