RE: WPO Test AAR, different outcome.

RE: WPO Test AAR, different outcome. (Full Version)

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Tankerace -> RE: WPO Test AAR, different outcome. (2/1/2005 9:00:21 PM)
Well, the main problem with the RN are most of its dreadnoughts are using 12" and 13.5" guns, which are outranged by Japanese 14 and 16.1" guns. Still, I have (and am) tweaking it to balance it out more. EDIT: plus, I also made British guns fairly crappy, to represent poor fire control. I may have to "uncrap" it a wee bit.

Bobthehatchit -> RE: War Plan Orange: Pacific Jutland Test AAR: The Battle Comes! (2/22/2005 7:21:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tankerace Moves for Valentines Day, 1928. Japan The enemy is blockading us. Rather than meet him, I will stay with the transports, let him harpoon himself on my CD guns, and attack! Britain England Expects Everyman To Do His Duty. Results: The English were cocky. The Battle for Formosa was a complete DISASTER. AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 02/14/28 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Japanese Ships BB Tosa BB Kaga BB Nagato, Shell hits 2 BB Mutsu, Shell hits 3, on fire BB Ise BB Hyuga BB Fuso, Shell hits 1 BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 3 BB Settsu, Shell hits 2 CL Sendai, Shell hits 1 CL Naka DD No. 43 DD No. 19 DD No. 21 DD No. 23 DD No. 25 Allied Ships BB Royal Oak, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage BB Revenge, Shell hits 3, on fire BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 1, on fire BB Ramilles, Shell hits 4 BB Resolution, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1 BB Vanguard, Shell hits 13, on fire BB Superb, Shell hits 3, on fire BB Temeraire, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage BB Bellerophon, Shell hits 5 BB Dreadnought, Shell hits 5 CL Danae, Shell hits 5 CL Dauntless DD Bruce DD Truculent, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Retreiver, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Vectis DD Vega, Shell hits 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Japanese Ships BB Tosa BB Kaga BB Nagato, Shell hits 3, on fire BB Mutsu, Shell hits 1, on fire BB Ise BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1 BB Fuso BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 1 BB Settsu, Shell hits 2 CL Sendai CL Naka DD No. 43 DD No. 19 DD No. 21 DD No. 23 DD No. 25 Allied Ships BB Royal Oak, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage BB Revenge, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 18, on fire, heavy damage BB Ramilles, Shell hits 6, on fire BB Resolution, Shell hits 15, and is sunk BB Vanguard, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage BB Superb, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage BB Temeraire, Shell hits 15, on fire, heavy damage BB Bellerophon, Shell hits 13, on fire BB Dreadnought, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CL Danae CL Dauntless, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage DD Bruce, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage DD Truculent, on fire, heavy damage DD Retreiver, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage DD Vectis, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Vega -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Japanese Ships BB Tosa, Shell hits 1 BB Kaga BB Nagato, on fire BB Mutsu, on fire BB Ise BB Hyuga BB Fuso BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 1 BB Settsu CL Sendai CL Naka, Shell hits 1 DD No. 43 DD No. 19, Shell hits 1 DD No. 21 DD No. 23 DD No. 25 Allied Ships CL Vindictive BB Warspite, Shell hits 2 BB Queen Elizabeth, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire BB Malaya BB Barham, Shell hits 7, on fire BB Colossus BB Neptune BB St. Vincent, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk BB Collingwood, Shell hits 1 CL Effingham, Shell hits 1 DD Broke DD Venetia, Shell hits 3, on fire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Allied aircraft no flights Allied aircraft losses Fairey IIIF: 8 destroyed Japanese Ships BC Amagi, Shell hits 1 BC Akagi BC Atago BC Takao BC Kongo BC Hiei, Shell hits 1, on fire BC Krishima, Shell hits 1, on fire BC Haruna CL Jintsu, Shell hits 1 CL Kako DD No. 27 DD No. 29 DD No. 30 DD No. 31 DD No. 32 Allied Ships CL Vindictive, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk BB Warspite, Shell hits 10, and is sunk BB Queen Elizabeth, Shell hits 18, and is sunk BB Malaya, Shell hits 15, on fire, heavy damage BB Barham, Shell hits 14, on fire, heavy damage BB Colossus, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk BB Neptune, Shell hits 8, on fire BB Collingwood, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CL Effingham, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage DD Broke, Shell hits 19, and is sunk DD Venetia, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Japanese Ships BC Amagi BC Akagi BC Atago, Shell hits 8 BC Takao, Shell hits 4 BC Kongo, Shell hits 2 BC Hiei, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BC Krishima, on fire BC Haruna CL Jintsu CL Kako DD No. 27, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD No. 29 DD No. 30 DD No. 31 DD No. 32 Allied Ships BB Benbow, Shell hits 36, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk BB Erin, Shell hits 17, on fire, heavy damage BB Agincourt, Shell hits 26, and is sunk BB Centurion, Shell hits 34, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage BB Orion, Shell hits 45, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk BB Thunderer, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage BB Conqueror, Shell hits 2 BB Monarch, Shell hits 27, on fire, heavy damage CL Calcutta, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CL Capetown, Shell hits 18, and is sunk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Japanese Ships BC Amagi BC Akagi BC Atago, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage BC Takao, Shell hits 7 BC Kongo BC Hiei, on fire, heavy damage BC Krishima, on fire BC Haruna CL Jintsu CL Kako DD No. 27, on fire, heavy damage DD No. 29 DD No. 30 DD No. 31 DD No. 32 Allied Ships BB Erin, Shell hits 10, and is sunk BB Centurion, Shell hits 25, on fire, heavy damage BB Thunderer, Shell hits 37, on fire, heavy damage BB Conqueror, Shell hits 24, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage BB Monarch, Shell hits 5, and is sunk CL Calcutta, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Japanese Ships CA Kasuga CA Nisshin CL Oi CL Kiso, Shell hits 2, on fire DD No.13 DD No.15 DD No.17 DD Minekaze Allied Ships BB Malaya, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk BB Barham, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BB Neptune, on fire BB Collingwood, on fire, heavy damage CL Effingham, and is sunk DD Venetia, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Taipei at 50,43 Japanese Ships CA Kasuga CA Nisshin, Shell hits 2 CL Oi CL Kiso, on fire DD No.13 DD No.15 DD No.17 DD Minekaze Allied Ships BB Royal Oak, on fire, heavy damage BB Revenge, on fire, heavy damage BB Royal Sovereign, on fire, heavy damage BB Ramilles, on fire BB Vanguard, and is sunk BB Superb, and is sunk BB Temeraire, and is sunk BB Bellerophon, Shell hits 2, on fire BB Dreadnought, and is sunk CL Danae, Shell hits 2 CL Dauntless, and is sunk DD Bruce, and is sunk DD Truculent, on fire, heavy damage DD Retreiver, and is sunk DD Vectis, on fire, heavy damage DD Vega -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Pescadores , at 47,43 Japanese aircraft Mitsubishi 1MF4 x 5 Allied aircraft Sopwith Cuckoo x 5 de Havilland DH-9A x 2 Bristol F2b x 7 Japanese aircraft losses Mitsubishi 1MF4: 2 damaged Allied aircraft losses Sopwith Cuckoo: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged de Havilland DH-9A: 2 destroyed Bristol F2b: 1 damaged Airbase supply hits 1 Aircraft Attacking: 1 x de Havilland DH-9A bombing at 10000 feet 4 x Sopwith Cuckoo bombing at 5000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 50,44 Japanese aircraft Mitsubishi B1M2 x 13 Japanese aircraft losses Mitsubishi B1M2: 2 destroyed Allied Ships BB Royal Oak, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage BB Royal Sovereign, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 1 x Mitsubishi B1M2 bombing at 5000 feet 3 x Mitsubishi B1M2 bombing at 5000 feet 2 x Mitsubishi B1M2 bombing at 5000 feet 2 x Mitsubishi B1M2 bombing at 5000 feet 4 x Mitsubishi B1M2 bombing at 5000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on Pescadores , at 47,43 Japanese aircraft Mitsubishi 1MF4 x 4 Allied aircraft Sopwith 7F1 Snipe x 2 No Japanese losses No Allied losses -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 51,43 Japanese aircraft Mitsubishi B1M2 x 3 Japanese aircraft losses Mitsubishi B1M2: 1 damaged Allied Ships BC Anson Aircraft Attacking: 3 x Mitsubishi B1M2 bombing at 5000 feet OPERATIONAL REPORT FOR 02/14/28 Kawasaki KDA-2 sighting report: 5 Allied ships at 50,44 , Speed 5 , Moving Southwest Mitsubishi B1M2 sighting report: 4 Allied ships at 51,43 , Speed 10 , Moving Northeast Kawasaki KDA-2 sighting report: 4 Allied ships at 50,44 , Speed 7 , Moving Southwest Mitsubishi B1M2 sighting report: 2 Allied ships at 49,45 , Speed 7 , Moving Southwest Takao expands port to size 4 Clark Field expands airfield to size 5 End results of the main battles of the night: Atago and Hiei will sink enroute for repairs, Krishima and Mutsu will be under repair for a year, and several other BBs and cruisers will need repair. After the battle, Centurion, Thunderer, and Conquerer foundered. Barham, Collingwood, and Royal Oak will sink enroute home, Royal Soverign may never return to service, Ramilles, Bellerophon, and Neptune should survive, but will be under repair for a year. Of the 34 British battleships that started the scenario, only Hercules (relatively undamaged) Ajax, Marlborough, King George V, Empress of India, Iron Duke, Ramilles, Bellerophon, Neptuneand Agamemnon survive. Of those, only Hercules and Agamemnon are fit for battle. Though I think I need to tweak the game a bit (a 12" British shell couldn't penetrate Settsu at 8,000 yards), does anyone else think WitP can't produce a Jutland? 24 Battleships sunk in one night. That is far worse than Jutland ever was, both sides combined. The Scenario is over, a clear cut win for Japan. Both sides started with about 5100 VPs, but Japan has 9185, Britain 6090. Britains naval force is limited to 2 Dreadnoughts, 1 OBB, 2 CVs, and 10 BCs. Japan has 9 Dreads (1 of which is OC), 8 BCs, and a fair number of OBBs. quote: Allied Ships BB Erin, Shell hits 10, and is sunk Damit thats my ship![:@] bang goes my naval career![:D]

Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange: Pacific Jutland Test AAR: The Battle Comes! (2/23/2005 4:40:30 AM)
LOL, I wouldn't worry about it. I have tweaked the nighttime exp values for Japan, they should be just as crappy as everyone else now. Plus, I tweaked the range of their guns, so it shouldn't be so one sided.

Iridium -> RE: War Plan Orange: Pacific Jutland Test AAR: The Battle Comes! (5/3/2005 8:45:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tankerace LOL, I wouldn't worry about it. I have tweaked the nighttime exp values for Japan, they should be just as crappy as everyone else now. Plus, I tweaked the range of their guns, so it shouldn't be so one sided. Wait, you tweaked the ranges?...Are you trying to make a balanced game or a simulation?...[:D]Not that Japan should completely outclass the Brits but wasn't the Fuso the largest and arguably the most powerful BB when finished? I guess I can see making the ranges not so much greater than the British guns so as to make it a cake walk. Still, I have reservations about messing with the true statistics. Dunno, I'd have to say if its a game breaker then go for it...

Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange: Pacific Jutland Test AAR: The Battle Comes! (5/3/2005 10:20:26 AM)
No no, I had to tweak the ranges because originally, I used the stock War in the Pacific ranges, which I forgot were of a turret with a 43 degree elevation. In the 1930's, for instance, the Japanese battleships with 14" (35cm) guns were modernized, and their turrets given a 43 degree elevation yielding a 38,770 yard range. This was the value I initially used. However, I forgot that in the early 1920's, their turrets only had a 25 degree elevation, yielding around 29,000 yard range, and then they were modernized in the late 1920's with a 33 degree elevation, yielding about 33,000 yards. I didn't input ranges I thought would balance the game, I strove to make it more historical. In the early period of the game, all Japanese ships with the 35cm gun have a range of 29,000 yards. This represents their original turrets. When they are modernized in the late 1920's, their retain these weapons, but the range is increased to 33,000 yards. They still have a longer range thatn other nations, but now they are using historically correct gun values. You also see this on the American side. Starting out, US battleship guns have similar elevation, and hence shorter ranges than in WiTP. However, for most (not all) by 1927-1930, their guns have higher elevation, and thus longer range.

Iridium -> RE: War Plan Orange: Pacific Jutland Test AAR: The Battle Comes! (5/3/2005 6:17:42 PM)
So, for example the Fuso has the original (Japanese made 41-Shiki) turrets which had only a firing arc of 0 to +30 degrees. Then you can put Fuso in for upgrades and it eventually gets refitted to increase the firing arc to -3 to +43 degrees. Note that the sources I posses on the 41-Shiki turret give ranges of 27,800 yards, then after the `30-`33 refit they range 35,450 yards. Aside from all that, armor and engines were upgraded in this one instance. Though it did take till '35 for all that to be completed from what I can see. I think that the only Japanese ship to posess the Vickers type turret that had a firing arc of -3 to +33 degrees with a range of 28,600 yards was the Kongo. Not sure if this tells you anything new, but just wanted to make sure...[:'(]

Andy Mac -> RE: War Plan Orange: Pacific Jutland Test AAR: The Battle Comes! (8/6/2005 9:05:49 PM)
Hmmm RN seemed to get a real kicking in reasonably good conditions may need some tweaking would they really have been that bad !!!. Does the RN get the Nelson or Rodney to offset those big gunned IJN and US ships Andy

Tankerace -> RE: War Plan Orange: Pacific Jutland Test AAR: The Battle Comes! (8/6/2005 9:37:05 PM)
Yeah, ranges have since been tweaked, to more historical results. Sorry about Nelson and Rodney, but since they were Treaty designs, they aren't included. That said, their original designs (the G3s) that were scaled down to produce the Nelsons are included. Granted they are battlecruisers, but they have the same 9 16" guns as the Nelsons, and you get three of them instead of two.

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