Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (Full Version)

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DeepSix -> Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/14/2005 8:24:27 PM)

I can't ever seem to decide how best to use these. They're either lacking in speed, range, or firepower. Just wondering how other people choose to put them to use.



drstat -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/14/2005 8:30:38 PM)

I generally use them to escort short convoys between islands where the risk of attack is not great, but not zero either. Many of them do have decent AA and ASW capability, in case you run into an attack. For me, this frees up destroyers to do more important work.



byron13 -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/14/2005 8:30:42 PM)

Some of the Allied ships have darned good ASW - especially for the early war. They contribute a lot to my ASW effort off Australia. Otherwise I'll throw them into short convoy TFs to boost the morale of the soldiers and sailors. Truth is, I pretty much ignore them.

Since you can't invade a hex without first disposing of all enemy ships in the hex/port (at least I think that's the rule) placing them in moderately threatened ports would/should prevent a cake-walk landing and require the other side to include combat escorts with the invasion force. If he doesn't, you might get lucky and hole a few APs.

They could be used as decoys since recon may report them as DDs or CL/CAs.



Zeke -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/14/2005 9:56:25 PM)

I use them to block some narral waterways between islands, no need to move, just sit there :)



pad152 -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/14/2005 10:19:05 PM)

PC's and PG's

Japan, I use them the ASW escorts for TKs to bring in oil and ASW missions with mix of PC/PG's and MSW/APD's.

They are useless in combat, I once had a group of PC/PG's attack unescorted AK's, the AK's sunk 2 PC's and badly damaged 2 PG's. All it takes is one hit from a 3in gun and it's bye-bye PC/PG.



Feinder -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/14/2005 10:50:15 PM)

Japanese PGs = Actually, these have larger displacement (are harder to sink, worth more VPs) than most DDs. Their durability is 10. They don't sink all that easily. Their range is limited, but you've got about 70 of them (as I recall). If it were me, I'd use them to escort convoys in SRA.

Japanese PCs = There are several classes of these. But yes, they're small, and tend to have very little in the way of AA and ASW. You'll use them to escort your convoys to free up your DDs for fleet work. But yes, they pretty much suck.

Allied PGs - The UK PGs (actually Flower class Corvetts and Swann class Frigates), are quite potent ASW hunters. They've also got fair range, and be used to escort a convoy with longer legs. They're too slow and short-legged for fleet work tho. Of course, if you're just going to pair them with a Ramillies class BB and sail around the Bay of Bengal, their speed and range (or lack thereof), isn't really a problem.

USN PGs - I don't know much about the USN PGs. I think they can converted to PT boat tenders and landing craft assault coordships, right? Also, a few of them have radar, which ironically, few of the USN ships have early war (wherease most RN, RAN, RDN ships -do- have radar, go figure).

USN PCs - Subchasers. Go ye forth, and hunt subs! (just stick close to friendly bases, your range sucks).

-F-



marky -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/14/2005 11:02:27 PM)

ive been using them playing the GC scenario, along with DDs

and its earyl october and ive sunk about a dozen jap subs[:D]



bbbf -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 12:22:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

USN PGs - I don't know much about the USN PGs. I think they can converted to PT boat tenders and landing craft assault coordships, right? Also, a few of them have radar, which ironically, few of the USN ships have early war (wherease most RN, RAN, RDN ships -do- have radar, go figure).

-F-



Why wouldn't the RN ships have radar, after all it was a British invention!



DeepSix -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 12:45:27 AM)

Hey these are all good ideas and most I had not considered. The only action my Allied patrol boats (except for the PTs which are very handy) have seen so far has been ASW around Pearl Harbor to help the DDs after 12/7. I put them into a small TF with the minesweepers and let the slow patrol handle the hex right around the base. There are lots of Jap subs lurking about. But other than that, I've been pretty slack about sending them out for anything, so this really helps. I don't think I've deployed any of the patrol boats at the British and ABDA bases.

Thanks!



rtrapasso -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 12:52:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

USN PGs - I don't know much about the USN PGs. I think they can converted to PT boat tenders and landing craft assault coordships, right? Also, a few of them have radar, which ironically, few of the USN ships have early war (wherease most RN, RAN, RDN ships -do- have radar, go figure).

-F-



Why wouldn't the RN ships have radar, after all it was a British invention!


Arghhh - radar was NOT a British invention!

EDIT - ideas for using radio waves for aircraft/ship detection date back all the way to Marconi. Radar was "invented" in about a dozen different countries - and Britain can't really claim it as the first inventor. Pretty much no one can claim credit for "inventing" it.

Even most of the critical components of radar were not British invention (i.e. cavity magnetron was invented independently in about 4 countries - first being Germany!)

However, Britain took radar seriously and implemented it more seriously than anyone else as they thought (correctly) that their national survival depended on it. In actuality, some of the most successful British radar systems were considered hopelessly antiquated - i.e. - the CHAIN HOME system (which defended Britain in the Battle of Britain) was called by the British "the steam wireless". It was so antiquated that the Germans did not recognize the towers are radar systems. Where the British really shown was in the organization they brought to implementing radar systems. Nobody came near them in this aspect early in the war.



bbbf -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 1:40:42 AM)

Fair enough, I've fallen for the propaganda!



byron13 -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 3:16:49 AM)

Actually rtrapasso is wrong. Since it was a good invention, it was obviously invented in the US of A.

I guess it is the CW PGs that have the good ASW. The American PGs really are a waste of time. Like I say, I use them to improve the morale of the convoys they escort, though it doesn't seem to have an effect in game terms. As in the real war, they can be used (and lost) as a stop-gap in the DEI when there ain't nothin' else around. Reading the stories about the PGs sacrificing themselves so a merchant could get away is pathetic while heroic. I'm thinking the port invasion prevention is about the best use for ones without ASW. As for AA, it is so negligible as to not really be worth consideration.



stubby331 -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 7:43:42 AM)

quote:

Reading the stories about the PGs sacrificing themselves so a merchant could get away is pathetic while heroic.


Im curious (but you can call me stubby). Just how many times did the "whole convoy scatter while I impale myself on their 8 inchs" happen? The only instance I'm aware of is HMAS Yarra.



stubby331 -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 7:50:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stubby331

quote:

Reading the stories about the PGs sacrificing themselves so a merchant could get away is pathetic while heroic.


Im curious (but you can call me stubby). Just how many times did the "whole convoy scatter while I impale myself on their 8 inchs" happen? The only instance I'm aware of is HMAS Yarra.


See HMAS Yarra link below (note the extensive Med service before the Pacific opened up.) HMAS Yarra crew had seen heaps of action before the WITP commenced, the Ship experience ratings should reflect this for RN and RAN ships. Of course, they do not.

http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/ships/yarra2.htm



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 9:22:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stubby331

quote:

ORIGINAL: stubby331

quote:

Reading the stories about the PGs sacrificing themselves so a merchant could get away is pathetic while heroic.


Im curious (but you can call me stubby). Just how many times did the "whole convoy scatter while I impale myself on their 8 inchs" happen? The only instance I'm aware of is HMAS Yarra.


See HMAS Yarra link below (note the extensive Med service before the Pacific opened up.) HMAS Yarra crew had seen heaps of action before the WITP commenced, the Ship experience ratings should reflect this for RN and RAN ships. Of course, they do not.

http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/ships/yarra2.htm


Problem I find with crew ratings is they are permanent. Your demand for higher ratings for Yarra does not wash because many crew would have been transferred to man new construction like Tribals, Bathursts, etc. Crew ratings would be better served as an average which is Fleet wide.



stubby331 -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 9:42:20 AM)

Ron,
In principle I agree with you, but not in Yarra’s particular case. When she was lost in action in March 1942 she hadn’t touched Australia’s shores since she left for active service in August 1940.

Yes, there would’ve been some crew movement but pretty minimal I would’ve thought.

I think I’m going to have wade through the rest the RAN to see how many HMA Ships crews were in the same boat (pardon the pun) as Yarra.

When Yarra comes into Scen 15 her experience is woeful (same goes for most of the RAN), whereas, in reality, the RAN (and the RN and the RCN for that matter) had been working their arse off for the last two and a half years.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 5:55:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stubby331

Ron,
In principle I agree with you, but not in Yarra’s particular case. When she was lost in action in March 1942 she hadn’t touched Australia’s shores since she left for active service in August 1940.

Yes, there would’ve been some crew movement but pretty minimal I would’ve thought.

I think I’m going to have wade through the rest the RAN to see how many HMA Ships crews were in the same boat (pardon the pun) as Yarra.

When Yarra comes into Scen 15 her experience is woeful (same goes for most of the RAN), whereas, in reality, the RAN (and the RN and the RCN for that matter) had been working their arse off for the last two and a half years.


You have a point. Simple editor change. I'll make a note for the big uber scenario.[:)]



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 6:45:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepSix

I can't ever seem to decide how best to use these. They're either lacking in speed, range, or firepower. Just wondering how other people choose to put them to use.


Weld them to the out side of your tankers and remove all combutsables[:D]



byron13 -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 9:41:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stubby331

quote:

Reading the stories about the PGs sacrificing themselves so a merchant could get away is pathetic while heroic.


Im curious (but you can call me stubby). Just how many times did the "whole convoy scatter while I impale myself on their 8 inchs" happen? The only instance I'm aware of is HMAS Yarra.


That would be the one. So:

Reading the story about the Yarra sacrificing itself so two merchants could get away is pathetic while heroic.



DeepSix -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 9:54:09 PM)

Since there's a 50% chance the Captain is going to go down with the ship, even if it sinks at it's moorings in port, and since we're talking about the deaths of a Sim Crew, I'm leaning towards heroic sacrifice.[;)]

Of course, I'd rather not lose the ship at all, but if it buys time for the oil and resources to escape, or ensures delivery of those supplies so the fortifications can keep building, I'm pretty much for it. I don't mean just throw them away as submarine fodder, though. A few posts back, someone mentioned putting them into convoy service on short hops and in areas where they are not likely to encounter the enemy. Anything's possible, but I think this kind of service makes the most sense. It suits their shorter range and slower speed - does it really affect morale? I guess it kind of depends, though, on which side you're playing and what the enemy sub doctrine is.



tsimmonds -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 10:53:35 PM)

They don't have to be short hops; PC/PG will refuel from AP/AK in the TF.



DeepSix -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/15/2005 11:08:21 PM)

True.... I was actually thinking more of the short runs in rear areas might not have as much wear and tear (SYS) on them, but true enough - they could be put on longer trips.



Andy Mac -> RE: Best tactics for using PCs and PGs? (2/16/2005 12:51:38 AM)

Beaverford and HMS Jervis Bay spring to mind when we talk about ships saving convoys....

Although a different Ocean

Andy



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