What's This Thing #3 (Full Version)

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rtrapasso -> What's This Thing #3 (2/18/2005 5:08:55 PM)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery – or so they say. I like Brady’s “column” so much i’m continuing my more humble effort with #3 of my series. This follows Brady's convention - if not special, it is in the WITP sphere of things. So, What's This Thing:

[image]local://upfiles/7543/Sq476712018.jpg[/image]



wild_Willie2 -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/18/2005 5:35:46 PM)

the last thing an american submarine commander saw befor his torpedos went dud and he was destroyed by the pissed of escords of this japanese light cruiser........................



grossmetzger -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/18/2005 8:17:47 PM)

looks like it´s not a japanese cruiser on the receiving end...
looks like a us heavy cruiser... northampton is my guess

[image]local://upfiles/6721/Pn376571637.gif[/image]



Tankerace -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/18/2005 8:38:09 PM)

I was going to say the Indianapolis, but you can tell by the foremast its a '41-'42 photo. My guess if not Northampton, then Chester or Chicago.



byron13 -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/18/2005 8:53:33 PM)

Did any of the mini-subs at Pearl snap a picture? Highly unusual picture. The CA is not underway and the water is glassy calm - indicating the picture taken inside a port. I'm thinking once the war already started, no way is a sub getting this close in these conditions. Hence, I'm wondering if PH.



eMonticello -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 1:25:35 AM)

USS Chicago was attacked by midget subs in Sydney Harbor in May 1942.

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

Did any of the mini-subs at Pearl snap a picture? Highly unusual picture. The CA is not underway and the water is glassy calm - indicating the picture taken inside a port. I'm thinking once the war already started, no way is a sub getting this close in these conditions. Hence, I'm wondering if PH.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 2:22:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eMonticello

USS Chicago was attacked by midget subs in Sydney Harbor in May 1942.

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

Did any of the mini-subs at Pearl snap a picture? Highly unusual picture. The CA is not underway and the water is glassy calm - indicating the picture taken inside a port. I'm thinking once the war already started, no way is a sub getting this close in these conditions. Hence, I'm wondering if PH.



That's what I was thinking.



madflava13 -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 3:02:39 AM)

My guess is a test of the periscope cameras US subs used... Probably a sub about to depart on patrol snapped this from "10-10" dock in Pearl...



TSCofield -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 4:58:28 AM)

Looks like it could be a Pensacola class CA. Bridge looks different than the Northhamptons and the stacks are wrong. They look very similar though.

Would guess this came from a US Sub.



kayjay -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 7:27:06 AM)

Swayback Maru.
Kevin



Tankerace -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 7:30:09 AM)

Was the SLC ever targetted by a sub? Now that you mention it, the foremast does look a little tall for a Northampton...



Ron Saueracker -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 7:59:26 AM)

Yeah but the Pensacolas did not have a hanger. I see a hanger. Cat posts are too high as well. It's a Northampton class for sure, pre 43 refit.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 8:06:02 AM)

I vote Northhampton class. The seaplane catapults are well off the deck and there is a slanting structure along the hull extneded forward from the catapult bay.

Here is the Chicago...forward superstruture is a bit different but this area was likely modified as the Chicago supersture looks like it has some more advanced electronic transducers. The Chicago was sunk in Jan 43.

The mystery pic forward superstructure appears intermediate to the prewar design and the design shown on the Chicago before its demise.


[img]http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/img/CA/CA-29_Chicago-2.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/7543/Sq476712018.jpg[/img]



Tankerace -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 8:10:56 AM)

ITs gotta be a Northampton. I still think its Chicago.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 8:11:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I vote Northhampton class. The seaplane catapults are well off the deck and there is a slanting structure along the hull extneded forward from the catapult bay.

Here is the Chicago...forward superstruture is a bit different but this area was likely modified.


[img]http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/img/CA/CA-29_Chicago-2.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/7543/Sq476712018.jpg[/img]


That structure is the spar which extends outward and from which the floatplane recorvery sled is deployed.



TSCofield -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/19/2005 7:10:10 PM)

Your right, the catapault is too big for a Pensacola class.



rtrapasso -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 8:33:27 AM)

Well, I've tried to be "cool" like Brady - but this is slipped a page without anybody trying a guess.

I will give you a hint. You guys are SO close! I would say "Miss, straddle, straddle, straddle, short..., straddle..." if i were spotting salvos.



Tankerace -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 8:47:27 AM)

Fine, then Ill fire a 10 gun Broadside, and one has to hit.

Its either:

Pensacola, Salt Lake City, Northampton, Chester, Louisville, Chicago, Augusta, Houston, Portland, or Indianapolis.

Its cheating, but hahahahahahahaha.



rtrapasso -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 8:48:22 AM)

[:-]



Tankerace -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 8:50:30 AM)

YOu know.... I kinda wonder if its Augusta, seen from a U boat before war broke out. I know a Uboat almost torpedoed the Texas, so one may have seen the Augusta.



rtrapasso -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 8:57:16 AM)

quote:

Pensacola, Salt Lake City, Northampton, Chester, Louisville, Chicago, Augusta, Houston, Portland, or Indianapolis.


Bad boy - you i did not give a cookie for Chicago, Salt Lake City, Northampton or Chester (i think those are the only actual ships mentioned before this) so you know it is not one of these.

That leaves: Pennsacola, Louisville, Augusta, Houston, Portland, or Indianapolis (one person said he was going to guess the Indy, but didn't).

So of those ships, you are correct, it is one of them. But which one?

EDIT - you added Augusta as i was posting. Still no cookie!



Tankerace -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 9:41:09 AM)

That's fine, I'm on a diet [:D]

So it was Augusta? That's odd.



von Murrin -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 9:51:54 AM)

Louisville.

Accompanying photo:


[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/nmurrin/louisville.jpg[/image]



Cap Mandrake -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 10:04:36 AM)

It's the Louisville-Houston-Chester[:'(] We have apparently already dismissed the Chicago, Northhampton and Augusta

Note that the mystery pic is a starboard aft quarter view. This is confirmed by the life raft? mounted on the back of the forward funnel. This is also barely seen on the picture of the Chicago. I wasted some of my precious time looking for a Northhampton class with a life raft mounted on the side of the forward funnel[:@]

The fact that the mystery pic is not from abeam means that the geometry of the forward superstructure looks funny.

I think we would need some geographic, contextual or time hint to sort out the remaing three Northhampton class cruisers.



von Murrin -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 10:56:35 AM)

Here's a modification of the above photo demonstrating why I think it's Louisville. Similarities are circled and seeming similar lengths are checkered lines.

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/nmurrin/louisville12.jpg[/image]



Cap Mandrake -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 5:15:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Here's a modification of the above photo demonstrating why I think it's Louisville. Similarities are circled and seeming similar lengths are checkered lines.

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/nmurrin/louisville12.jpg[/image]


von Murrin;


I agree that it is a Northampton class vessel..as those features are seen in the Northampton class. The superstructure differences are seen over time I think...BTW...there is no life raft on the back of the fore funnel.

Here is the Northhampton itself...with thsoe same features.

[img]http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/img/CA/CA-26_Northampton-2.gif[/img]



rtrapasso -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 6:24:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

It's the Louisville-Houston-Chester[:'(] We have apparently already dismissed the Chicago, Northhampton and Augusta

Note that the mystery pic is a starboard aft quarter view. This is confirmed by the life raft? mounted on the back of the forward funnel. This is also barely seen on the picture of the Chicago. I wasted some of my precious time looking for a Northhampton class with a life raft mounted on the side of the forward funnel[:@]

The fact that the mystery pic is not from abeam means that the geometry of the forward superstructure looks funny.

I think we would need some geographic, contextual or time hint to sort out the remaing three Northhampton class cruisers.



OK - here is a (BIG) hint - within a few days of this picture being taken, they were going to need the liferaft you guys keep noticing...



Cap Mandrake -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 6:30:23 PM)

USS Houston, sunk in battle of Sunda Straight March 1, 1942.

The other members of the Northhampton Class that were lost in the war have already been excluded.

Photo taken by US sub


http://www.navalships.org/usshouston.html


Surprising to me that both the Perth and Houston were lost under the command of a Dutch Admiral (Doorman) even though there were no Dutch capital ships involved.



rtrapasso -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 8:02:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

USS Houston, sunk in battle of Sunda Straight March 1, 1942.

The other members of the Northhampton Class that were lost in the war have already been excluded.

Photo taken by US sub


http://www.navalships.org/usshouston.html


Surprising to me that both the Perth and Houston were lost under the command of a Dutch Admiral (Doorman) even though there were no Dutch capital ships involved.


Cookie to Capt. Mandrake! It is the USS Houston - and this was the last photo taken of her.

Although this photo is said to be taken on the website quoted as "being through the periscope of an Allied sub" - a better attribution (including the person who submitted the photo) says it was actually taken through the GUNSIGHT of an Allied vessel.

Either way, the photo made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck when i saw it (and the caption).

Of course, periscope cameras were not standard in US (or other Allied subs) in the beginning of the war. Amateur photographers on the crew figured out how to do them, and methods eventually became standardized to allow for things like photorecon through the periscope. I suspect similarly someone fitted a camera a the gunsite to allow this picture. Unfortunately, the ship to which this is attributed to is not given. See:
info.lib.uh.edu/sca/ digital/cruiser/atwar.htm

As for Doorman - i don't believe he was "in charge" anymore when the Houston and Perth were sunk. Doorman was lost when De Ruyter (and Java) were sunk on 28 February. The Battle of Sunda straight started some hours later.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: What's This Thing #3 (2/20/2005 9:03:28 PM)

Interesting. The point remains that Doorman sent the Houston and Perth in harms way. It is simply something I found surprising given current American sensibilities about foreign control of US armed forces.

I was accustomed to British commanders giving orders to US forces..just surprised me about the Dutch. Still, I do have Doorman in charge of a US flagged force vs the AI [:)]



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