New Jap player needs help w/production (Full Version)

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Rohna -> New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 1:45:34 AM)

I've decided to take on the task of commanding the japs. I've always played as allies and have very little understanding of the effects caused by tweaking production. I also dont know much about jap aircraft, so i dont know what to research for.

It would be a HUGE help if some kind jap player out there could tell me what to do. I'm not looking to tweak everything to get the maximum advantage possible and be overloaded with detail, i just would like a list of changes/upgrades/etc to make on certain dates that are pretty standard for most jap players.

I'm sure im not the first, and i have searched the forums, but i found little in the way of a step by step list.

i am very excited about my new adventure (been reading a lot about the japs early war latley) but became intimidated at the first sight of all the detail and options available.

Please help!
Thanks



jwilkerson -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 7:48:15 AM)

Well first of all ... if you wait for 1.5 ... then all the accumulated wisdom on this topic is ... COMPLETELY CHANGED ... 1.5 will introduce the concept of flexible upgrades whereas with the current 1.4 system you are playing a game within a game to optimize the fixed upgrades ... for example the Oscar II which replaces the Nate [ and ONLY replaces the Nate ] ... so you want to initially shut off Nate production ... you have 710 in the pool ... and the Oscar II comes ini ... worst case ... in January 1943 ... and you won't use up the 710 Nates by then ... so shut off Nate production. You have one group of Oscar II's being researched ... let that continue full steam ... doing this will accelerate the arrival of the Oscar II by a few months ... but even while your Nate factories are shut off ( there are 2 ... one at Toyko and the other at Harbin ) ... you should at least double the size of your Nate factories ... leave them turned off .. but hit the expand button .. and they will still grow up to double their size ... once the Oscar II's actually finish the research cycle ... the Nate factories will instantly and auto-magically convert to Oscar II production !!! So you'll have about 200+ Oscar II's comming out per month ... and you'll need them because you have a TBO ( Total Build Out ) of 1158 Oscar II with about 870 by end of 1943 .. ( and you should plan to have pool size top out at about double the TBO to allow for replacement of losses.

So this is one ( important ) example of how to plan and manage air production ... if you'd like to do this yourself ... just go through all the air units on the map ... and key them and their max strengths into a spreadsheet ... then go through the entire air unit reinforcement track and key those units and their max strengths into the spreadsheet ( oh and include the dates of arrival ) ... then you can compute effective TBO at any given date for any given air type ... oh and key in the upgrades as well so you can track effective TBO by date across the upgrades ... then this shreadsheet will be a useful planning tool to drive your research and your factory increases [ I'm describing the spreadsheet I built to do this ! ] ... or ... just wait until 1.5 comes out .. because then ... all of this is just a WASTE OF TIME .. because then you can upgrade ( within type ) from anything to anything !!!

There are threads that discuss the Japanese ship "production" ... I was a part of some of them ... and this piece is relatively simple ... and pretty much common sense ... otherwise ... keep a day to day eye ... on OIL, Resources, Supply, Fuel annd HI ... note that HI ... is the intermediate resource that is produced FROM oil and resources ... but then feeds all other production ... you want to increase your HI without depleting your raw materials reserves ... but you do need to increase you HI .. so you can increase you ships and your planes .. use the small factories ( those with under 50 current points ) as these allow increases of less drastic proportions ... and keep watching HI and resources ... by doing this ... you can ramp up without creating a bottlneck ...



sabreman1966mcs -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 9:04:28 AM)

There are also some good articles over at Spooky's site regarding Jaanese production.



pauk -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 9:19:18 AM)

You have to look this great thread. Very enlightening.



Working title: Zen and the Art of Japanese Aircraft Production,

starter of the thread Oznoyng



pauk -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 9:40:51 AM)

and for understanding japanese r&d (research aircraft), i found this thread very educational:

how do I know if I'm getting aircraft early?

starter: Boss Gnome

hope it helps...



mogami -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 9:57:48 AM)

Hi, What ever became of Oznoyng? I have a pbem with him gathering dust.



pauk -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 10:12:40 AM)

i wander that myself, also. Not heard from him for few months. Lets hope he is just too busy....



mogami -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 10:24:47 AM)

Hi, His last log in was on Jan 7.



Rohna -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 11:06:44 AM)

Thanks everyone (especially you jwilkerson). I had no idea of the significant changes to production in 1.5. I think i'll start anyway, but not hurt myself trying to figure everything out. I do apprecieate the suggestions tho, as i'll impliment them up till 1.5 comes out.

Thanks agian!



tsimmonds -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/24/2005 2:13:16 PM)

Halt Shinano on turn 1 and never start it back up.



BlackVoid -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/25/2005 12:03:12 AM)

Ships

Stop Shinano
Stop all RO subs
Stop all AK/AP that is due early (later restart).
Convert AKs to MLE and AR ships
Accelerate all DD, CV due in 42 (stop other things as needed esp. subs, later restart)
Build Yamato, but consider accelerating after finished lots of points to for something else

Don't overbuild, if your shipyard pool is shrinking to 0, stop building some ships.


AC

Stop all research (later you'll know if you want it back or not)
Stop K-27
Stop G3M2

Then

Watch your pools! Search forums..... Read... Make choices...



BraveHome -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/25/2005 12:54:33 AM)

Here's a brief list of things I got off a thread last year when I started my first PBEM Japanese game, that I found still holds up pretty good today:

Gumma (0) x 12 36 Armament Assembly increase to 48
Gumma (66) x 0 P1Y Frances Halt and Set Repair to No
Gumma (320) x 0 Ki-84-Ia Frank Halt and Set Repair to No
Gumma (38) x 0 Ki-44-IIb Tojo Halt and Set Repair to No
Gumma (23) x 0 J1N1-S Irving Halt and Set Repair to No
Gumma (8) x 0 J1N1-R Irving Halt and Set Repair to No
Gumma (14) x 0 C6N Myrt Halt and Set Repair to No
Gumma (120) x 0 A6M5 Zeke Halt and Set Repair to No
Gumma (0) x 41 Ki-27 Nate Halt and allow to autoconvert on 1/1/43
Gumma (0) x 20 G3M Nell Halt and allow to autoconvert on 1/1/42. Restart after it autoconverts.
Gumma (0) x 62 Ki-43-Ib Oscar Consider halting late February-April (depends on losses)
Hakodate (0) x 10 40 Kawasaki Engines convert to Nakajima and increase to 40
Hakodate (0) x 8 32 E13A1 Jake convert to A6M2 and increase to 16
Hamamatsu (0) x 9 36 Nissan Engines Convert to Nakajima and increase to 36 per month
Harbin (0) x 29 Ki-27 Nate Halt and allow to autoconvert on 1/1/43
Hiroshima/Kure (0) x 12 36 Armament Assembly increase to 48
Hiroshima/Kure (0) x 12 12 B5N Kate increase to 24
Hiroshima/Kure (20) x 0 D4Y Judy Halt and Set Repair to No
Hiroshima/Kure (0) x 3 32 E13A1 Jake convert to A6M2 and increase to 32
Kanazawa (0) x 10 40 Armament Assembly increase to 40
Kanazawa Vehicle 2 to 8
Kitakyushu (0) x 10 30 Kawasaki Engines Increase to 40
Kyoto (34) x 0 Ki-61 KAIc Tony Halt and Set Repair to No
Kyoto (44) x 0 Ki-45 KAIa Nick Halt and Set Repair to No
Maizuru (0) x 0 40 Armament Assembly increase to 32
Maizuru Vehicle 27 to 54
Maizuru (28) x 0 N1K1-J George Halt and Set Repair to No
Nagasaki (0) x 12 36 Armament Assembly increase to 48
Nagoya Vehcile 15 to 30
Nagasaki (0) x 6 32 A5M4 Claude Convert to A6M2 and increase to 32
Nagoya (0) x 31 31 Ki-46-II Dinah increase to 62
Nagoya (0) x 20 20 Ki-21 Sally increase to 40
Nagoya (0) x 8 24 B5N Kate increase to 32
Nagoya (0) x 5 5 Ki-57-II Topsy increase to 10
Nagoya (19) x 0 J2M Jack Halt and Set Repair to No
Nagoya (78) x 0 D4Y Judy Halt and Set Repair to No
Nagoya (57) x 0 B6N Jill Halt and Set Repair to No
Nagoya (0) x 20 20 Aichi Engines Double to 40
Nagoya (0) x 40 40 Kawasaki Engines convert to Nakajima
Okayama (0) x 5 35 Armament Assembly increase to 40
Okayama (10) x 0 G4M2e Betty Halt and Set Repair to No
Okayama (20) x 0 G4M2 Betty Halt and Set Repair to No
Okayama (31) x 0 A6M5c Zeke Halt and Set Repair to No
Okayama (71) x 1 A6M3 Zero Halt and Set Repair to No
Osaka/Kobe (0) x 0 40 Armament Assembly increase to 32
Osaka/Kobe Vehicle 21 stays same
Osaka/Kobe (0) x 2 6 H6K2-L Mavis increase to 8
Osaka/Kobe (0) x 8 24 H6K4 Mavis increase to 32 and Halt. Restart on 1/1/42 to begin Emily production
Osaka/Kobe (65) x 0 N1K1-J George Halt and Set Repair to No
Osaka/Kobe (56) x 0 Ki-67 Peggy Halt and Set Repair to No
Osaka/Kobe (25) x 0 Ki-45 KAIb Nick Halt and Set Repair to No
Osaka/Kobe (0) x 10 40 Kawasaki Engines convert to Nakajima and increase to 40
Sasebo (11) x 0 B7A Grace Halt and Set Repair to No
Shimuzu (0) x 7 49 Nissan Engines convert to Nakajima and increase to 56
Tokyo Vehicle 25 to 50
Tokyo (0) x 8 24 D3A Val increase to 32
Tokyo (0) x 32 Ki-54 Hickory halt when Hitachi engines used up or convert to Bettys around 1/30/42
Tokyo (119) x 0 Ki-43-IIa Oscar Halt and Set Repair to No
Tokyo (0) x 120 120 Hitachi Engines convert to Nakajima on 1/7/42
Tokyo (0) x 10 40 Nissan Engines Convert to Nakajima and increase to 40 per month
Tokyo (0) x 20 20 Ishikawajima Engines convert to Nakajima and increase to 40
Tokyo (0) x 29 20 Ki-36 Ida convert to A6M2 and increase to 40
Tokyo (0) x 5 L1N1 Thora convert to L2D2 Tabby and expand to 6 (me)
Toyama (15) x 0 Ki-46-III KAI Dinah Halt and Set Repair to No
Toyama (17) x 0 Ki-46-III Dinah Halt and Set Repair to No

The Tokyo Tabby conversion and Hickory/Betty conversion were mine (so don't blame the originator [:D]).



Grotius -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/25/2005 1:07:54 AM)

quote:

Okayama (10) x 0 G4M2e Betty Halt and Set Repair to No
Okayama (20) x 0 G4M2 Betty Halt and Set Repair to No
Okayama (31) x 0 A6M5c Zeke Halt and Set Repair to No

Why halt the Betties? More generally, why halt all the other planes -- just to save aircraft points for Zeroes etd?



Rohna -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/25/2005 1:15:20 AM)

great stuff, thanks so much!



BraveHome -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/25/2005 1:18:54 AM)

Sorry, should have stated the intention of the original author was to save resources he felt were being expended nearly uselessly in R/D -- these Betties/Zeke are not available to the Japanese until much later in the war.

The key is to restart these R/D aircraft (if you subscribe to this savings practice) when the number of days before they come online is equal to the damage (thus ensuring they start production the day they become available, minimizing 'waste').

Here is his (sorry, I didn't log who, apologize!) original goal for production changes:

Generally, I would do the following before I secure the SRA:
1) increase A6M2 production
2) increase Armaments production
3) increase eyes and ears production (Ki46 and H8K, speed up Float plane subs)
4) Halt and Set Repair to No on research factories (this saves me 1k supply per point not repaired) Only restart x days in advance of aircraft availability where x is the number of damaged factory units.
5) speed up escorts (DD's, PC's, PG's, etc.)
6) convert all non-Nakajima/Mitsubishi/Hitachi/Kawasaki plants to Nakajima



pauk -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/25/2005 10:45:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome

6) convert all non-Nakajima/Mitsubishi/Hitachi/Kawasaki plants to Nakajima


just small comment about Hitachi engines

IIRC, only ac with Hitachi engines are Ki-32 Mary, Ki -54 and Ki-36... Im not using Ki-54 (Teresa upgrades to Hickory but have awful range of 4, so i leave Theresa). Mary - have them in a pool enough, and after pool is exausted (or maybe even earlier) i will upgrade them to Lilly...

Ida - 2 groups of this short legged outclassed recon (they dont upgrade). Using them, but nothing more....(certantly they are waste of HI and engines:)

So i change Hitachi engines to Nakajima also...



AmiralLaurent -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/25/2005 2:14:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome
Hakodate (0) x 8 32 E13A1 Jake convert to A6M2 and increase to 16
Hiroshima/Kure (0) x 3 32 E13A1 Jake convert to A6M2 and increase to 32


Jakes and Alfs are the only floaplanes I use. I rather convert the Pete factory in Tokyo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome
Kanazawa Vehicle 2 to 8
Maizuru Vehicle 27 to 54
Nagoya Vehcile 15 to 30
Tokyo Vehicle 25 to 50


I will rather increase armamaent factory. You don't get more armored units if you build more tanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome
Nagoya (0) x 31 31 Ki-46-II Dinah increase to 62
Osaka/Kobe (0) x 8 24 H6K4 Mavis increase to 32 and Halt. Restart on 1/1/42 to begin Emily production


Max number of Emilies used by op units is 108. Building 32 is too much IMOO. Idem for Dinah. 31 a month is enough, you need only 2 planes in a recon unit to fly recon....

quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome
Tokyo (0) x 32 Ki-54 Hickory halt when Hitachi engines used up or convert to Bettys around 1/30/42

One unit with 36 planes will arrive with this plane. Ki-59 units upgrade to Ki-54 but Ki-59 is better in all factors so never upgrade and keep Ki-59 factories.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome
Tokyo (119) x 0 Ki-43-IIa Oscar Halt and Set Repair to No

If I keep only one research I will be this one. 90% of the Nate units upgrade to this plane so having it some times in advance is a really good idea as Nates will be useless very fast.

----

Other things I do on turn one:
stop CV Shinano always. Then various combinations depending of the game. Once you have stopped Shinano you have a little excess production (around 100 points per day) so you can accelerate two CVL for example. Then you have to halt building a ship to accelerate another.
CVE, CS and auxiliaries use merchant ship points. Merchant shipyards are used at 60% at start. Convert 6 transports to AR and 1 to AS in Osaka. You can accelerate the CS and the first arriving CVE. If you still produce more merchant points than what you need, accelerate something else.

I don't expand merchant or repair shipyards but will expand all small naval shipyards (size < 20).



BraveHome -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (2/26/2005 6:02:43 AM)

I agree there are many personalized fine-tunings that can be done, for the experienced player. This list was intended only as a starting point for the beginner (like myself, who downloaded these recommendations from another thread here).

That said, just a few comments on your comments:

1. The list also includes many armament upgrades. In my PBEM (admittedly not far into '42 yet) I have had to actually shut down armament production, I have so much, and am always a bit low on vehicles. So in future games I might actually reverse this and increase vehicles more and armament less than in this list.

2. I am hungry for more Emilies already, and it is a significant upgrade IMOO to the Mavis, so I like the increase here.

3. Hickory is short-changed in this game, I admit. However, it's stretching even that shortchanging a bit far to say the Theresa is better in ALL factors -- the Hickory has far more Durability and has respectable guns (for what that's worth!). Besides, it's just so cute, in a Pug sort of way...[:D]

4. All this goes out the window with 1.5 anyway, but I'd agree in a future game I'd keep the IIa R/D -- although my Nates have several times outcap'd my Zeros (in consistency and kills!) in the SRA versus the Dutch, if you can believe it...[X(]



Grotius -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (3/1/2005 5:26:49 PM)

quote:

Jakes and Alfs are the only floaplanes I use. I rather convert the Pete factory in Tokyo.

So can you switch existing Pete squadrons over to Jakes or Alfs? If so, how?



tsimmonds -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (3/1/2005 5:44:15 PM)

Not yet; starting in 1.5 you would be able to.



AmiralLaurent -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (3/1/2005 7:44:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

quote:

Jakes and Alfs are the only floaplanes I use. I rather convert the Pete factory in Tokyo.

So can you switch existing Pete squadrons over to Jakes or Alfs? If so, how?


No, I just don't build more Petes than the existing number at start. They are only used by me to fly ASW around rear aera ports so losses are low.



AmiralLaurent -> RE: New Jap player needs help w/production (3/1/2005 7:48:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome

4. All this goes out the window with 1.5 anyway, but I'd agree in a future game I'd keep the IIa R/D -- although my Nates have several times outcap'd my Zeros (in consistency and kills!) in the SRA versus the Dutch, if you can believe it...[X(]


I believe it. My Nates have scored 54 kills in December 1941 in my last PBEM (52 RAF planes, including some Hurricane, in Malaya and 2 P-40E in PI) for only 10 air losses (8 in Malaya and 2 in PI).

My best Army plane so far is the Oscar (42 air kills for 4 air battle losses) of wich I have only two Sentais.

Zeroes scored 179 victories, including 13 B-17C, for 11 losses in A2A. Still the best. But IJAAF planes are not yet hiding in rear aeras.



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