RE: A nicer milestone... (Full Version)

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ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/23/2005 8:14:43 AM)

August 20th was a relatively quiet day. I did capture Nauru:

Ground combat at Nauru Island

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2735 troops, 27 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 25 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Nauru Island base !!!

Nauru is roughly inbetween the Gilberts and the Solomons, so it is a good place to put some air patrols in place.

Otherwise I whacked Koepang pretty well with a number of planes and kept PzB's planes there grounded. He pulled out his ships so my carrier TF didn't get a second chance at them, but as I told PzB, I'll get more chances to sink his ships in the future. [;)] (He also has to get past the subs that I have in that region.)

"Quiet" is good - it means that I am moving forces around without being bothered.

Dave Baranyi



String -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/23/2005 9:26:21 AM)

I'm still amazed at the difference in the tone between your and wobblys AAR. In the late stages he was almost always in a dark gloomy and defeatist mood (understandable) while you seem to totally ignore any setbacks or defeats [:D]



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/23/2005 1:05:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

I'm still amazed at the difference in the tone between your and wobblys AAR. In the late stages he was almost always in a dark gloomy and defeatist mood (understandable) while you seem to totally ignore any setbacks or defeats [:D]


I'm a "glass is half-full" sort of guy. RL has always been full of obsticles for me and I've developed a particular style for dealing with them. What you see in my game reports is a reflection of that style,

I realize that I haven't "won" this game by any definition. PzB is waaaaay ahead of me in points. I will need to literally sink his entire navy, recapture most lost bases and bomb Japan back into the Stone Age in order to have a hope of breaking even. Months ago I commented on how I wasn't certain how an Allied player can win this game. I'm still not sure if it is possible. But I certainly am grateful for PzB giving me the chance to try a situation in which the Allies were almost defeated.

Wobbly was frustrated by many of the frustrating things about the game. I've now taken the attitude that I'm playing WiTP and I am not trying to "re-live" the Second World War - this makes accepting the frustrating aspect of the game mechanics easier. I don't care now how "historic" anything that I do appears - WitP is a Gary Grigsby game and I'll play if for what it is.

Thanks for your comments -

Dave Baranyi



Captain Cruft -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/23/2005 3:53:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB
I've now taken the attitude that I'm playing WiTP and I am not trying to "re-live" the Second World War - this makes accepting the frustrating aspect of the game mechanics easier. I don't care now how "historic" anything that I do appears - WitP is a Gary Grigsby game and I'll play if for what it is.


This is so true. You have to concentrate on what actually does happen rather than what you think should happen. It's not a simulation - it's a game (with lots of bugs). Brilliant but flawed ...

P.S. I'm enjoying this AAR and really hoping to see the total invasion of India thwarted. C'mon the Brits! :)



Central Blue -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/23/2005 8:25:11 PM)

"I will need to literally sink his entire navy, recapture most lost bases and bomb Japan back into the Stone Age in order to have a hope of breaking even."

Pretty much what happened in real life -- accept for losing India.

Game mechanics are a problem. I think the bigger problem may be innacurate TOEs. I think the Japanese are typically over-gunned and over-supported. I doubt the UK and Commonwealth troops are close. Troops arriving from other theatres should -- for example -- at least reflect the 72 gun 25lb'er field artillery regiment of the infantry division and 6 3" mortars per battalion.



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 1:24:18 AM)

Practice does make perfect as far as bombing Koepang from Oz goes. On August 21 I started to get things ordered the way that I like:

Day Air attack on Koepang, at 28, 77

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
198 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 55

Day Air attack on Koepang, at 28, 77

Allied aircraft
PBY Catalina x 3
Martin 139 x 6
Hudson I x 19

Allied aircraft losses
Martin 139: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 17

I'll just keep this up on a regular basis and help PzB's forces there to waste away.

In the meanwhile in Java my now reduced forces are still going after PzB's rather quiet forces too:

Day Air attack on Batavia, at 19, 59

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 20

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 3
Beaufort V-IX x 6
P-40B Tomahawk x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 5
A-20B Boston x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 2 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 2 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed
A-20B Boston: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3

Day Air attack on Malang, at 22, 66

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 11

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 1 destroyed

Runway hits 2

True, it's an ugly war of attrition, but it keeps PzB tied up and forces him to decide whether or not to keep enough forces there to stop me or to let me continue to be a small, aching wound.

Meanwhile, in the Marshalls, PzB has been trying to reinforce key bases, and I'm helping to waste his efforts:

Day Air attack on Jaluit, at 81, 84

Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 3
B-17E Fortress x 24

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Port hits 1
Port supply hits 2

Jaluit is one of the "level 0" air bases that is hard to move up even to a level 1. Getting bombed regularly doesn't help. And I found out to my satisfaction that B-25s do reach Jaluit quite nicely from Tawara:

Day Air attack on TF, near Jaluit at 81, 84

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 30

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PG Eiko Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Tempei Maru, Bomb hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
AG AG-358, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
59 casualties reported

Two of those ships sank. In the meanwhile I continue to pour troops into all of the Marshalls as well as Nauru and build them all up.

Speaking of moving forces, PzB is doing something really strange in the Bay of Bengal. He has a sizable transport TF that is travelling due west and is now SW of Ceylon. What is he doing? Is he trying to go to the "map edge" and if so, why? It's not like I have a lot of anti-shipping planes in Colombo. Also, where does he intend to go with that TF? Is he planning to bring it north to reinforce India or invade Karachi from the Sea, or does he want to go south and try a sneak attack on some place like Perth or Broom? This will require watching. If he does come south I'll have to do a "map edge" sweep with my carrier TFs to discourage him from doing it again. <g>

Meanwhile, the big action is finally getting underway in India. PzB has 20 units on the road to Malir. They will first have to fight their way through a Chindits force on the outskirts. We will see if I get the advantage of the open terrain rules on attacks. I have also set all of my planes in Malir to ground attack on that approaching force. I'm not a big fan of "ground attack", but I need to at least try it here. The air groups in Karachi will continue to bomb Bombay and other key sites.

Dave Baranyi



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 1:25:09 AM)

Well, half of my Indian air attacks got off and performed well on August 22:

Day Air attack on Bombay, at 20, 10

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 40
B-24D Liberator x 36

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
642 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 63
Port hits 3
Port supply hits 1

I'm not certain that PzB will bother to try to defend Bombay any more. He may well feel that he will capture Karachi soon enough so that there is no point at "throwing good after bad" for the next little while. Unfortunately, my "ground attack" from Malir didn't fly, so now PzB's attackers are up in contact with the Chindits.

I've now ordered all of the non-combat engineers out of Malir and into Karachi. I will next spread them out in the various hexes to the north of Karachi. I want to avoid letting PzB freeze me in place, and I also want to set up an escape area in case his forces turn out to be more overwhelming that I expect. I have no idea if this will work, but with the idiocy inherent in the current movement rules I have to try something.

Down in the DEI PzB continues to ignore my bases in Java. He is just letting my small, tired air forces slug it out with his small tired air forces. I guess that he wants to rest up his main LBA forces for some showdown elsewhere. I also suspect that he is waiting to do anything on the ground until he frees up some troops from India. So my job in India is to delay that as long as possible.

In the meanwhile my LBA continues to do its job on Koepang:

Day Air attack on Koepang, at 28, 77

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 71

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
121 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 50

Day Air attack on Koepang, at 28, 77

Allied aircraft
PBY Catalina x 4
Martin 139 x 6
Hudson I x 33

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PG Kamitsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 7

The rest of my plan continues as planned. I'll actually get a substantial force in a couple of weeks, so that will allow me more flexibility. In addition, big returning transport TFs continue to reach both San Fran and Pearl.

Dave Baranyi



frank1970 -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 9:20:29 AM)

I am quite sure PzB isnīt going after Oz. He can do so later, when he has all his forces from India (which will be quite crack units then). I can think about two possibilities:
a) PzB brings in supplies for the last siege (not so propable, he got 800000 supplies in Bombay)
b) he brings in transports (with troops?) to invade Karachi.

If b) is correct, where are his carriers? I donīt think PzB will invade from sea without massive support (BBs, carriers). Could your airforce withstand such an massive hit?



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 1:22:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

I am quite sure PzB isnīt going after Oz. He can do so later, when he has all his forces from India (which will be quite crack units then). I can think about two possibilities:
a) PzB brings in supplies for the last siege (not so propable, he got 800000 supplies in Bombay)
b) he brings in transports (with troops?) to invade Karachi.

If b) is correct, where are his carriers? I donīt think PzB will invade from sea without massive support (BBs, carriers). Could your airforce withstand such an massive hit?


If you are reading PzB's AAR, you really shouldn't be passing information to me such as the amount of supply in Bombay. I appreciate the thought, but it ruins a bit of the fun of writing the AARs for both of us.

If PzB wants to commit a large group of his forces to an invasion of Karachi, he can make it work. My defense is based upon making such an invasion very costly for PzB. And I think that PzB realizes that as soon as I see major forces of his committed to Karachi I will be invading the Central Pacific in a big way - remember, Karachi is a long ways from the Marianas.

I believe that PzB is betting that he can overcome my defenses on land and will be patient with his naval. He has left one battle group in Bombay to prevent me from going in with bombardment TFs, or even a quick invasion. He will probably keep some of his carriers around in case I try to have my ships flee. But he doesn't want to commit his carriers to an air war of attrition with my air forces - I am too strong right now, particularly while I still hold Malir. Once he captures Malir he can take a chance on trying to close the airfields at Karachi, but that will still be a dangerous and costly effort for him. That is why he is building up the other air bases in Northern India and resting up his LBA - I expect him to try one last time to close down my air bases by air attack when he feels that he can overwhelm me.

I suspect that he might try to land those troops on that TF to the north of Karachi to cut off my escape routes. That's why I will be moving non-combat troops to all of the hexes to the north and northeast of Karachi - this way I can maintain control of the movement and slow down any advances from the rear.

As far as Oz goes, if I were in PzB's shoes, I would try a raid-invassion of Perth. It can't hurt and it would distract the Allies in a location that is hard to react to quickly. So my defensive strategy has been to strengthen my key defensive perimeter everywhere so that I can slow down raid-invasions and respond to them as opportunities to hit at his fleet.

My major objective at this time is to engage his fleet at near-equal or better terms any time that I can. He doesn't get to replace his major ships - I do mine. And the more of his transports ships I sink, the fewer are around to move his troops out of India. Remember, the quickest and easiest way to defeat Japanese troops is to sink them at sea. [:D]

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi



frank1970 -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 2:24:46 PM)

I only read Wobblies and your AARs. I think Wobbly stated PzB caught a very large amount of supplies in Bombay.



String -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 2:30:26 PM)

How are your carriers doing, how long before they can support the invasion in Centpac?



Tom Hunter -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 3:38:54 PM)

ADavidB:
quote:

If you are reading PzB's AAR, you really shouldn't be passing information to me such as the amount of supply in Bombay. I appreciate the thought, but it ruins a bit of the fun of writing the AARs for both of us.


In Franks Defense the supply number was posted by wobbly when Bombay fell. I don't think PzB has posted about his supply situation in Bombay and in general he tends to write about troop and naval deployments more than logistics.

I belive Frank is theorizing about PzBs options not passing on his strategy. I do read both AARs so I am not going to write any more about this.

But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.

Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....



Smiffus64 -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 3:49:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

...

But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.

Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....


Mwahaha :)

Seriously though, I think PZB will dig in when/if he finishes in India and Java and try to weather the storm.



frank1970 -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 3:58:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

ADavidB:
quote:

If you are reading PzB's AAR, you really shouldn't be passing information to me such as the amount of supply in Bombay. I appreciate the thought, but it ruins a bit of the fun of writing the AARs for both of us.


In Franks Defense the supply number was posted by wobbly when Bombay fell. I don't think PzB has posted about his supply situation in Bombay and in general he tends to write about troop and naval deployments more than logistics.

I belive Frank is theorizing about PzBs options not passing on his strategy. I do read both AARs so I am not going to write any more about this.

But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.

Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....


Thanks Tom!
I would post the link to the posting of Wobbly, but I am to plain stupid to get the right url. It will always link to the forum section.[&:]

I just thought about what happened yet and how PzB played this game (and he played it very well!). He isnīt taking risks. He is a friend of massive support while doing invasions.
If he let his transports go north, he will have aircover there. Aircover means carriers. Carriers means trouble. He would have BBs there, too.

Iīd think heīll do the following:
put troops on transport, sail near Karachi (outside airrange), close your airfield by bombardment, use the defeat of your airforce on ground to use his planes against your forces. (Bombardments by ships will do the rest).
That is the reason why he was going after Malir, too. If he catches the base, you will have no more place to hide your planes from his BBs.



Andy Mac -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/24/2005 5:18:40 PM)

The main thing I say at this stage is look at that date ticking on...

Spitfires crap on offence but rested trying to defend 2 bases I wouldnt want to be a IJA player trying to break that cap with Oscars and sub 80 exp Zeroes.

4 weeks to Lightnings I hope you are positioning gps to upgrade ready to take advantage and have turned auto upgrade off for all P39 Gps so the right one upgrades !!!.

Andy



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 12:42:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

I only read Wobblies and your AARs. I think Wobbly stated PzB caught a very large amount of supplies in Bombay.


Sorry about that. Thanks again for your comments.

Dave



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 12:44:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

How are your carriers doing, how long before they can support the invasion in Centpac?


My carriers are doing fine. I have them, along with surface forces, right where I need them for all of my operations. I have been supporting the Gilbert/Marshall operations with carriers but I haven't committed them yet - I'm waiting for "juicy" targets, not barges...[;)]

Thanks -

Dave



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 12:47:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

ADavidB:
quote:

If you are reading PzB's AAR, you really shouldn't be passing information to me such as the amount of supply in Bombay. I appreciate the thought, but it ruins a bit of the fun of writing the AARs for both of us.


In Franks Defense the supply number was posted by wobbly when Bombay fell. I don't think PzB has posted about his supply situation in Bombay and in general he tends to write about troop and naval deployments more than logistics.

I belive Frank is theorizing about PzBs options not passing on his strategy. I do read both AARs so I am not going to write any more about this.

But after India falls you better get a big army to the US East Coast.

Damn that just slipped out, where is the edit button....


I've apologized to Frank. Hopefully I've used up some of that excess supply in Bombay with my attacks.

BTW - it wouldn't surprise me at all of PzB's armies moved to the edge of the map in India and showed up next turn in the "United States" base. They seem to be able to go wherever they want...[&:]

Cheers -

Dave



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 12:49:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

The main thing I say at this stage is look at that date ticking on...

Spitfires crap on offence but rested trying to defend 2 bases I wouldnt want to be a IJA player trying to break that cap with Oscars and sub 80 exp Zeroes.

4 weeks to Lightnings I hope you are positioning gps to upgrade ready to take advantage and have turned auto upgrade off for all P39 Gps so the right one upgrades !!!.

Andy


Yeah, the last thing I want is some West Coast units getting P-38s first...[:(]

Thanks for the comments -

Dave



ADavidB -> Tough times... (3/25/2005 12:51:22 AM)

August 23 was a disappointing turn. Not only my planes didn't fly from Malir and Karachi again, but the Chindits retreated after a 2:1 battle. I just don't understand the combat system - I've had plenty of much weaker units withstand much greater odds for several turns. Oh well, obviously there is little point planning on defending my extended perimeter.

It now looks as if PzB will have little trouble rolling over my forces in north-western India. I'm almost tempted to pull everyone out and set them off on a "Diaspora" to Tibet; if for no other reason than to have the replacements that will come in to Karachi over the next few weeks go somewhere else. But replacements will likely divert to Colombo, which is not an improvement. If I could direct where the replacements will go, I would abandon Karachi, but I guess I'll just stick it out.

Man, the lesson that keeps on coming back to me is that to stop the Japanese you have to stop their invasions, because you won't stop their ground troops unless you can get them bogged down in jungle. I'm certainly happy that I followed my instincts and have been working hard to shore up my perimeter in the Pacific. I probably won't have the time, however, to be able to build a sturdy link to Java. The good thing there is that I've been able to "sneak" forces out of Java that I want elsewhere.

The whole situation in India also confirms PzB's approach to be patient and let his ground troops do the fighting. He hasn't needed to commit the KB and has thus avoided unnecessary losses and simultaneously allowed for his naval forces to rest and build strength. That will make it even harder to counter his eventual return in force to the Pacific.

You can tell that PzB is feeling more comfortable with the situation. Not only is he ignoring my weak attacks in Java, he has finally brought some LBA to the Central Pacific:

Day Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 79, 91

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Kaiping, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Rail

So I won't have a "free ride" out there any more. Oh well, the times were good while they lasted.

One surprise I hope to give to PzB this coming turn will be a new air attack target. I just found out in my game against ZonkerH that my B-17s in Darwin will reach Kendari. I'm hoping that I catch some of PzB's planes on the ground too.

Dave Baranyi



ADavidB -> RE: Tough times... (3/25/2005 12:54:07 AM)

Well, as of August 24th it looks as if my planes at Malir have no intention of going off on ground attacks no matter what the conditions. Oh well, I'll send them off on an airbase raid. My planes at Karachi hit Bombay, but that doesn't really matter much at this point:

Day Air attack on Bombay, at 20, 10

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 48
Hudson I x 15
B-24D Liberator x 40

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
229 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 84
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 1

For some reason PzB didn't moved his troops into Malir proper. He's probably waiting for more troops.

It looks as if my search planes under General Magoo in Colombo really blew it big time. So much for a transport TF going to the west - look what ended up to the west of Colombo:

Day Air attack on TF at 3, 22

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 3
A6M2 Zero x 77
D3A Val x 65
B5N Kate x 83

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
TK Empire Marvell, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Oryx, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Unity, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Semiramis, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Pleiodon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
TK Empire Collins, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

[X(] So I now know where part of the KB is sitting. This was a TF of damaged ships that I sent off from Karachi quite a while ago. I wanted the repairs in Karachi to be focussed on the damaged combat ships that I have there. These damaged transports then also acted as "canaries in a coal mine". I had a few other transports going south too - I'm sending them back to Karachi and sending the troops on the long march to Tibet.

Not all the news was disappointing. As I had hoped, I did catch some planes on the ground in Kendari:

Day Air attack on Kendari, at 33, 71

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 50

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
L2D2 Tabby: 12 destroyed, 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 3 destroyed, 17 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 21

I presume that those Tabbys were what transported a few Japanese troops into Lautem:

Ground combat at Lautem

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 546 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 103 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Lautem base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

I find this almost impossible to believe - some of my troops actually defeated some Japanese troops! (My troops were Auzzies - goes to show you that I do have a few good troops around.)

The only other relatively positive news that I received was that some of PzB's Bettys in Kwajalein went after a "juicy" target in Tarawa, with unhappy results for the bombers:

Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85, 91

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 17 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
BB North Carolina

This was tempered by the second "kick-at-the-can" by the Bettys which did hit a transport:

Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85, 91

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AK Steel Voyager, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Yes, it looks like tough times ahead for a while.

Dave Baranyi



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 12:58:34 AM)

quote:

Iīd think heīll do the following:
put troops on transport, sail near Karachi (outside airrange), close your airfield by bombardment, use the defeat of your airforce on ground to use his planes against your forces. (Bombardments by ships will do the rest).
That is the reason why he was going after Malir, too. If he catches the base, you will have no more place to hide your planes from his BBs.


In order to bombard Karachi PzB has to get past 4 surface combat TFs full of Brit cruisers, DDs and even a Brit BB. This means that he will take damage to his surface force. If he sends in the KB before the bombardment he has to face several hundred rested and experienced fighters and fighter bombers, along with several hundred bombers.

My "best case" scenario is that he does try to force his way in. My worst case scenario is that he just uses his army, then uses the KB to pick off the survivors as they sit out at sea. We'll see what he does.

Thanks for the comments -

Dave



String -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 10:17:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

quote:

Iīd think heīll do the following:
put troops on transport, sail near Karachi (outside airrange), close your airfield by bombardment, use the defeat of your airforce on ground to use his planes against your forces. (Bombardments by ships will do the rest).
That is the reason why he was going after Malir, too. If he catches the base, you will have no more place to hide your planes from his BBs.


In order to bombard Karachi PzB has to get past 4 surface combat TFs full of Brit cruisers, DDs and even a Brit BB. This means that he will take damage to his surface force. If he sends in the KB before the bombardment he has to face several hundred rested and experienced fighters and fighter bombers, along with several hundred bombers.

My "best case" scenario is that he does try to force his way in. My worst case scenario is that he just uses his army, then uses the KB to pick off the survivors as they sit out at sea. We'll see what he does.

Thanks for the comments -

Dave


However with his combined fleet his sure to defeat your cruisers and destroyers easily.. Atleast i think so.. I do recall quite a few jap BB's being damaged. What kind of ships do you have and how did you divide them into your taskforces.. ? If you have any minesweepers or PG's I'd suggest making a TF out of them too.. might just slow the japs down a bit and make them expend their ammo on their way in. Also, if you have PT's in the pool and american AK's in Karachi then load them up with supplies and create some.



Tom Hunter -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 1:29:43 PM)

String: "However with his combined fleet his sure to defeat your cruisers and destroyers easily.. Atleast i think so.. I"

I beg to differ number of ships, quality of crews and leaders and luck all make a big difference in surface combat. It is possible that PzB does not even know there is a British BB in Karachi. British torpedos actaully explode, the night fighting advantage the Japanese have over the USA does not exists against the Brits, these are all reasons why ADavidB might see some good results.

Wobbly was unable to force surface actions with the RN, for the most part they were sunk by aircraft. So PzB lacks experience fighting them. I agree that PzB has the advantage but I am not sure he will win easily, its very possible he will get a bloody nose on his first attack and then come back with superior force.



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 1:59:00 PM)

quote:

However with his combined fleet his sure to defeat your cruisers and destroyers easily.. Atleast i think so..


Remember, the day after I took over I wiped out an incoming Japanese fleet with only minor losses and damage to my own fleets.

I've always realized that a determined multi-fleet attack by PzB would eventually overwhelm my forces. Combine with that a simultaneous attack by the KB and he could probably close my air fields at Karachi too. But while I still have Malir it is a very risky move for him and potentially very costly. I have a hundred tac bombers in Malir along with my long-range fighters. They can reach out to hit surface ships waiting to go in to attack - particularly if there are BBs in the mix. The can also hit the ships that survive an attack.

At the same time I have 150 fighters and another 100 bombers in Karachi. The long-range bombers are in Karachi and I've used them to keep Bombay's air fields closed. This prevents PzB from using land-based fighters to provide LR CAP over incoming surface fleets. Sure, he could use the KB for that, but the LR CAP still has to fight off up to 300 fighters and 200 bombers. Unless PzB got really lucky with the weather that would mean some pretty heavy losses for him.

Sure, as we've seen recently, my bases can get shut down because of weather, and sometimes my planes just won't fly, but PzB hasn't been willing to risk his main naval forces to "chance". And so far he hasn't had to because his ground forces have shown the ability to fight their way through all of my defenses. I have no reason to believe that they can't do that again. That's why I call an all-out naval attack by PzB my "best case" scenario, because it is the situation in which I have the greatest chance of causing the most damage to PzB's navy. If I can cripple his navy I then don't care about his land forces in India because he won't be able to get them out of there - I'll sink them on the way. PzB's current approach is the most dangerous to me because he will eventually gain all of his objectives on land while maintaining his naval forces.

Thanks again for your comments -

Dave Baranyi



String -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 2:26:02 PM)

Ok, I understand your point. Still i would be interested in the composition of those TF's.. maybe you could take a screenshot of each of them? In reality, when i started to think about it I realized that i had no idea why i thought that the brits were inferior to japanese in surface combat. Many british ships have equal or even better night experience ratings. Also you are in a good position to use ships even with high system damage. Sys only affects speed and if all weaponry is intact then the ship will fight as well with 99 sys as it will with 0 sys.

Btw, he doesn't have to LRCAP his surface TF's with the KB. He can put the KB into a position where he knows that the bombardment TF will retreat to. That way the TF will be under cap the morning after. That ofcourse doesn't count for cripples. If you really have 200 bombers that can be launched at the KB with an escort of 150 fighters (assuming 50% out of the 300) then you could even inflict some serious damage to KB. Am I right if I assume that the bomber crews are becoming quite experienced?



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 4:14:05 PM)

quote:

Btw, he doesn't have to LRCAP his surface TF's with the KB. He can put the KB into a position where he knows that the bombardment TF will retreat to. That way the TF will be under cap the morning after. That ofcourse doesn't count for cripples. If you really have 200 bombers that can be launched at the KB with an escort of 150 fighters (assuming 50% out of the 300) then you could even inflict some serious damage to KB. Am I right if I assume that the bomber crews are becoming quite experienced?


This is one of the places where the game mechanics help in my favor. The AI makes incoming TFs stop and wait at the range in which they can hit and run again, unless he sets his TFs to "do not retire". That AI-defined distance is a function of the speed of the slowest ship in the TF. During the first couple of turns he left combat TFs at that distance and my bombers kept on hitting them. If he orders his ships to "do not retire" he takes a chance that his ships are right there where I have 500 planes. When I have "targets of opportunity" I put all of my planes on "naval attack".

And yes, my planes all have good experience now, thanks to a month-plus of bombing targets with little or no opposition. And they are very rested, have unlimited supplies and good replacement pools. The key with any attack by the KB is not that I feel that my planes will do much damage to the ships, but that he will get his air craft depleted. Then he has to go a long ways back for re-supply - he sure can't use Bombay with my planes able to reach it.

But I really don't think that he will bother. He most likely won't have to. The Japanese army is modeled as "Gods" in this game, so I won't be able to hold Karachi forever. Nor can I attempt encirclements or to cut off his supply - the movement rules prevent me from doing so. It's a shame because the game would be much more fun if we could do massive "wars of maneuver" a la the historic Russian front. But maybe, just maybe Mike Woods will do something about this in the future. (Unfortunately, I suspect that 2X3 is waiting for: a) monetary success from W@W, and b) their new Russian front game, and therefore they won't end up addressing the movement issues in WitP.)

BTW - I use small, near-historic sized combat TFs in the game. I find that these are much more effective than massive TFs and there is a much better chance that most if not all of the ships will get into combat. This also allows me more "kicks-at-the-can" as far as fighting a strong opponent goes - if my first TF is defeated the second TF gets a weaker opponent, and so on. The other thing I will do if PzB does come in with combat TFs or the KB is to set up a bunch of transport TFs as "fire ships". Again, this takes advantage of the game mechanics - there is always a chance that the AI will go after "soft" targets in preference to tougher targets, and every attack on a sacrifical TF means less ammo for a fight with my combat TFs.

Thanks again for the comments -

Dave



ADavidB -> Bay of Bengal Overkill... (3/25/2005 5:44:13 PM)

Well, PzB has a lot more of his navy in Indian waters than I thought as of August 25 (and certainly more than is necessary):

Night Time Surface Combat at 3,23

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
CA Suzuya
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
CL Natori
CL Oi
DD Kazegumo
DD Shiranuhi
DD Amatsukaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Natsugumo
DD Yamakaze
DD Uzuki

Allied Ships
TK Empire Dickens, Shell hits 25, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

So this is the second major surface fleet that PzB has in Indian waters. He still has one in Bombay, just in case I try to send some ships in there. Add to those two surface fleet at least two fleet carriers in a carrier TF and it's now pretty obvious to me why is isn't trying to interfer too seriously with my activities in the Pacific. To a certain extent, and in this light, one could almost consider the Indian situation as a "successful ruse" on my part. [:D] ( [sm=crazy.gif] )

But PzB hasn't left me to do everything that I want. He landed a force in Lautem via fast transport a lot sooner than I expected him to do. Obviously he doesn't want to allow me to set up any sizable base in Timor. This could turn out to be a "hot spot" for the two of us because I will commit forces there. Stay tuned.

Otherwise, I hammered Ahmadabad by air this turn in order to keep from having to worry about it for a while. Next turn I'll hammer Bombay once again, as well as Lahore. PzB moved his main land force into Malir this turn. Will he do his usual initial bombardments or do an outright attack?

In the meanwhile, my efforts to move out non-combat units into the Indian countryside north of the Indus is working to an extent. When my troops get kicked out of Malir I'll move the defeated troops into the locations currently occupied by my non-combat troops and move the non-combat troops further east. This way I'll make PzB face my best troops in Karachi without any weak forces in the way. And PzB won't be able to out flank me easily. This can only buy me so much time. Once PzB captures Karachi my supply will be cut off and my troops won't move. But my spreading them out over a bunch of hexes it will take PzB a longer time to round them up, encircle them and eliminate them. (Oh gawd it would be so nice to have an intelligent land movement system in this game!)

In other areas, I whacked Kendari again, with nice results:

Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 38

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 12 destroyed, 4 damaged
L2D2 Tabby: 6 destroyed, 14 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 32

PzB has moved his air units, but I'll whack that base this turn.

In the meanwhile, PzB's LBA is "licking its wounds" in the Marshalls and leaving my ships alone again. The airbase at Makin reached level 1 so I moved a squad of Wildcats in. Slowly but surely the Gilberts are turning into a great staging ground for my forces.

Dave Baranyi



asdicus -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 5:59:49 PM)

I have been following this AAR from the original wobbly start and am greatly enjoying your efforts to save the day for the allies. It seems that you are fighting poor game mechanics as much as a skilled opponent and I am impressed by your resilience in the face of adversity.

I suspect you are correct re the impossibility of saving the brits in india. This is very disappointing and in my opinion very unrealistic but we have to play the game as it is presented to us. I do not know if it will help but I have a few thoughts re the defense of karachi. On the land side I think Malir is key. It offers you a second airbase and a base safe from naval bombardment. It is behind a river and thus the game gives you a defense bonus. I think you should concentrate you fighting troops here and your engineers who can rebuild forts. Also air-ground missions seem to work best when you can attack units around base hexes - give it a try with your medium and fighter bombers - the extra disruption caused may help a lot.

In the pacific the usa subs are fairly useless with their poor torps and allied sub doctrine but how about a major sub minelaying campaign? It would keep the japs on their toes and you never know may hit something useful every now and again.

As there are some jap carriers in the indian ocean again it is possible to sneak in some single ship taskforces to java ? A few more air maintenance and engineer units would be useful there.

Thanks again for keeping the aar going - this report is one of the first things I check on the web each day so I must be enjoying it !



ADavidB -> RE: A nicer milestone... (3/25/2005 7:04:26 PM)

"I have been following this AAR from the original wobbly start and am greatly enjoying your efforts to save the day for the allies. It seems that you are fighting poor game mechanics as much as a skilled opponent and I am impressed by your resilience in the face of adversity. "

The game mechanics are only a small factor - the major factor is that PzB is playing very, very smart and knows the game well. He also learns very fast from any mistakes. These are all signs of a very good mind for strategy. PzB may also have a fundamental advantage over me - he is a specialist in computer programming and theory, IIRC, and I've got to think that such a mindset and training has to be a significant asset here. On the otherhand, I'm an old experimental chemist - I tend to learn from my mistakes, but I like to try things out at least once before I "believe" the data...[:D] In this game mistakes can be very costly to learn from.

"I suspect you are correct re the impossibility of saving the brits in india. This is very disappointing and in my opinion very unrealistic but we have to play the game as it is presented to us. I do not know if it will help but I have a few thoughts re the defense of karachi. On the land side I think Malir is key. It offers you a second airbase and a base safe from naval bombardment. It is behind a river and thus the game gives you a defense bonus. I think you should concentrate you fighting troops here and your engineers who can rebuild forts. Also air-ground missions seem to work best when you can attack units around base hexes - give it a try with your medium and fighter bombers - the extra disruption caused may help a lot. "

I thought hard about chosing Malir as my main location for fighting, but I decided that the advantage of the "endless" supplies in Karachi was more important. Also, every day that my forces in Karachi aren't fighting is an extra day for them to increase their morale and their "target" value. I still don't understand how morale for land units is supposed to work. I've had troops in Karachi for 6 weeks that have had all the supplies in the world, lots of support and base forces, their commanding HQ in the same hex, and still morale hasn't increased. If PzB's troops have "high" morale they will defeat my troops regardless of whatever else I do. My suspicion is that morale for land units is similar to morale for air units - it goes up when they are successful. Well, I haven't had any chances for my troops to be "successful".

"In the pacific the usa subs are fairly useless with their poor torps and allied sub doctrine but how about a major sub minelaying campaign? It would keep the japs on their toes and you never know may hit something useful every now and again. "

I don't tend to find offensive mine operations to be more than a nuisance to a good opponent and they take the subs away from what I find more useful - performing picket duty. I get lots of good information on my opponent's ship movements from well-placed subs.

"As there are some jap carriers in the indian ocean again it is possible to sneak in some single ship taskforces to java ? A few more air maintenance and engineer units would be useful there. "

I was trying to do that, but PzB has cut off the "narrows" between Colombo and the map edge. So I sent my forces back to Karachi. If there wasn't a map edge I could send transports to the Antartic and a Japanese player could never afford to send his "short-legged" TFs so far south. But that's how things go. Actually, in reality the Brits would be moving forces to Africa under these conditions.

"Thanks again for keeping the aar going - this report is one of the first things I check on the web each day so I must be enjoying it !"

Thank you for your comments and encouragement. I really appreciate the feedback.

Dave Baranyi



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