Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (Full Version)

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cassius44 -> Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/6/2005 7:35:46 PM)

Hi all. Playing scenario 16 as the Allies for the first time, and have two related questions on aircraft upgrades. Hoping someone can help me out!

1) B-18A Bolos
The Allies start with 5 Bolo units, which upgrade to various different aircraft. Issue is the 11th BG, which is supposed to upgrade to B-17C Fortress. But there are no replacements or build production for this aircraft! And the couple of B-17C units in the field are in the PI and get clobbered, so not able to upgrade them and get even a few units in the pool (Not that this matters I believe - as need full amount (64 for the 11th BG) of aircraft in the pool for the unit to upgrade, yes?). So how does the 11th BG get upgraded?

2) Dutch Patrol aircraft
Similarly, the Dutch have the Dornier 24K, the Fokker 51 and the CW 22 recon/patrol aircraft. No replacements or production for these aircraft either. Less of a problem as there are more of them, and when the Dutch finally upgrade then the trickle down effect can work. But debating now when to evacuate them from the DEI. Or what if I withdraw / disband them? What happens to returning air units if there are no aircraft of their type available in the pool, or ever will be?

Question: Does the upgrade aircraft even jump a model number? I'm assuming no, otherwise the 11th BG would go to B-17Es. Or does it happen once all the aircraft of the immediate upgrade type are out of play?

Much appreciate any advice!



rtrapasso -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/6/2005 7:50:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cassius44

Hi all. Playing scenario 16 as the Allies for the first time, and have two related questions on aircraft upgrades. Hoping someone can help me out!

1) B-18A Bolos
The Allies start with 5 Bolo units, which upgrade to various different aircraft. Issue is the 11th BG, which is supposed to upgrade to B-17C Fortress. But there are no replacements or build production for this aircraft! And the couple of B-17C units in the field are in the PI and get clobbered, so not able to upgrade them and get even a few units in the pool (Not that this matters I believe - as need full amount (64 for the 11th BG) of aircraft in the pool for the unit to upgrade, yes?). So how does the 11th BG get upgraded?

2) Dutch Patrol aircraft
Similarly, the Dutch have the Dornier 24K, the Fokker 51 and the CW 22 recon/patrol aircraft. No replacements or production for these aircraft either. Less of a problem as there are more of them, and when the Dutch finally upgrade then the trickle down effect can work. But debating now when to evacuate them from the DEI. Or what if I withdraw / disband them? What happens to returning air units if there are no aircraft of their type available in the pool, or ever will be?

Question: Does the upgrade aircraft even jump a model number? I'm assuming no, otherwise the 11th BG would go to B-17Es. Or does it happen once all the aircraft of the immediate upgrade type are out of play?

Much appreciate any advice!


Yes, eventually the units will jump a model - the Bolos will become B17Es (or whatever the unit was scheduled to upgrade to after B17C).

Yes, the Dutch will also eventually upgrade (under the right conditions - enough supply, near their HQ, 7/42, etc.) I think the recon units end up with the recon version of the P-38 (F5?)



Bradley7735 -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/6/2005 8:28:41 PM)

Cassius, you have to set the air unit to upgrade and run the turn. You can't make it happen, but the computer will auto skip one level during the turn resolution. (assuming enough B-17e's are available)

bc



Rob322 -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/6/2005 10:14:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cassius44

Hi all. Playing scenario 16 as the Allies for the first time, and have two related questions on aircraft upgrades. Hoping someone can help me out!

1) B-18A Bolos
The Allies start with 5 Bolo units, which upgrade to various different aircraft. Issue is the 11th BG, which is supposed to upgrade to B-17C Fortress. But there are no replacements or build production for this aircraft! And the couple of B-17C units in the field are in the PI and get clobbered, so not able to upgrade them and get even a few units in the pool (Not that this matters I believe - as need full amount (64 for the 11th BG) of aircraft in the pool for the unit to upgrade, yes?). So how does the 11th BG get upgraded?

2) Dutch Patrol aircraft
Similarly, the Dutch have the Dornier 24K, the Fokker 51 and the CW 22 recon/patrol aircraft. No replacements or production for these aircraft either. Less of a problem as there are more of them, and when the Dutch finally upgrade then the trickle down effect can work. But debating now when to evacuate them from the DEI. Or what if I withdraw / disband them? What happens to returning air units if there are no aircraft of their type available in the pool, or ever will be?

Question: Does the upgrade aircraft even jump a model number? I'm assuming no, otherwise the 11th BG would go to B-17Es. Or does it happen once all the aircraft of the immediate upgrade type are out of play?

Much appreciate any advice!


One option is, and perhaps it's too late in your game, to move the B-17C's out early, upgrade them and then watch those airplanes fill out the Bolo group.

The Dutch recon groups will eventually turn into F-5A recon planes so what I would suggest is that when the end is near, wing them down to Australia (paying some PPs) and wait, eventually you'll have some very useful recon groups to look after the SRA.



Lord_Calidor -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/6/2005 10:24:06 PM)

Also, when you upgrade existing B-17C Units with B-17E's or whatever, that will put some 17C's in a pool.



Feinder -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/6/2005 11:19:13 PM)

Personally, I convert the 2x Falcon sqdns to SEAC and bounce them to India/China (where they can be of immediate use).

The bi-planes I covert to SWPac (when I get around to them) and park them in Oz until they upgrade. They're too short legged to be of any use, so they pretty much just take up hanger space in Alice Springs or some other fogotten AF until they upgrade.

But saving the Dutch Recon sqdns is worth it. 6x free squadrons of F-5s is a nice reward for simply being patient.

And the Dutch Dornier patrols work fine until they're down to a single aircraft. Then you just pay the 4 pts, and park them somewhere until they upgrade to PBYs (also nice, because you very soon have -plenty- up PBYs). Again, that's 6 (or is it 10) free PBY sqdns, just for being patient. And you can -never- have too many patrols.

-F-



cassius44 -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/7/2005 1:14:31 AM)

Wow. Some excellent advice - thanks.

So, it sounds like for the Bolos, I just have to wait until there's enough B-17Es in the pool to cover the size of the group, and the Bolos will upgrade all the way to that model if I have them on auto upgrade. (Note: As far as I can tell, there are never enough 17Cs in the game to fill the pool enough for the 64 slots of the group I am trying to upgrade.)

As for the Dutch, have to wait until they finally can upgrade, but then that works out well it sounds like. (Interesting idea re the Falcons)

Still have minor question of what if I withdraw/disband one of the Dutch air units. It does come back, yes? But if there are no aircraft (or not enough) of that type available, does it just produce pilots and sit there waiting for aircraft (until I can finally upgrade)?

I did one of the latter, and then got kind of worried, so now have two Dutch air units of one plane each in Adelaide!

Cheers!




Knavey -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/7/2005 2:21:36 AM)

Was touched on earlier but upgrade the 17Cs to 17Es and that will add more to the pool. Split your Bolo squadron up and upgrade each group 1 at a time from the 17C pool. Then upgrade that group of 17Cs to 17Es. Its a pain, and takes a while to build your 17E pool up but it can be done.



Halsey -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/7/2005 4:12:19 AM)

One of your Bolo Groups upgrades to B-25's. Keep an eye on this one. It's an important unit early in the war. Wherever you send it.

Dutch air units. After they are all but destroyed in Indonesia. Have them disband, return in 90 days. Before you do this make sure the accept replacements is turned off. This is important!

After 90 days they will appear in Sydney with no planes or pilots. Only the commanding officer is present.

You now have the option to rebuild it, or wait for better aircraft to come out in 7/42.
If you build them, remember your aviation support is very limited at the begining. So you make the call whether you want substandard Dutch air units sucking up the support. Or whether you want your better aircraft fully functional.[;)]




BaitBoy -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/7/2005 5:32:12 AM)

What I did was to withdraw or dispand Dutch squadrons into wach other to keep some up to full strength. Now I have a bunch of zero plane squadrons in Sidney waiting until 7/42. Don't let this worry you as you will soon have better planes you can bring in from the US. Just be carefull, I messed up and dispanded when I should have withdrawn and now I have 22 pilots in an 8 plane squadron! [8|]

Use those Bolos for rear area ASW sweeps since you never have enough B-17Es (if you are even half way agressive) and you get more Bolos as replacements for opp losses.



cassius44 -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/8/2005 1:46:37 AM)

All:

Thanks for the comments re the Bolos and the Dutch.

Went back and checked out my Dec 8th save, and only had 30 B-17Cs, all in the PI. Now that it's mid-Feb, unfortunately I only have 15 left - the survivors of Clark Field.

Knavey's trick of breaking down the 11th BG into its three sub-units and upgrading each in turn won't work for me now I think, as the size of sub-units is still 21 aircraft - so I'm six short.

Will try and remember to evacuate the B-17Cs earlier next time, so I have the 21 minimum.

So now I have the 11th BG - assigned to South Pacific - and all it's good for is rear area patrol. Oh well, at least it will have plenty of replacement aircraft!

Halsey - you specifically mentioned the B-25s. Are they that good? Read the aircraft stats, but don't have enough familiarity to know if that indicates an "edge". Currently, I have them in Townsville, trying to do something about all the Jap/AI subs that have so far have sunk the Houston, 3 DDs, and 3 MSWs, as I try to defend convoys to PM and Darwin. (And why the heck does the map show a sub symbol, but when I scroll over the sub, it says APD or AK?!?!)

Cheers!



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/8/2005 12:35:46 PM)

quote:

And why the heck does the map show a sub symbol, but when I scroll over the sub, it says APD or AK?!?!)
Fog of war and cross eyed recon pilots..... If you click on the dutch air units on the upgrade button it will tell you when they can upgrade, think its may or june 43?



Tom Hunter -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/8/2005 7:34:49 PM)

Dutch units can upgrade starting in July 42

However this is only really helpful for the bombers and float planes as the bombers go to Hudons or Beauforts and the Dornier float planes become PBYs or Catalinas all of which are useful aircraft.

The Dutch that I was able to save upgrade to Kittyhawk IIIs which don't come into the game until 1943. So I still have Demons and Brewsters flying around and they don't do much other than die.

The Dutch FK51 biplanes upgrade to F5F search planes which are really nice, but they only replace 5 a month so it takes a long time to get them all upgraded. Its worth it, but its slow.



Halsey -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/9/2005 3:02:35 AM)

This early B-25 unit is the first Med bomber that can be put into any area where it looks like the Japanese are making a major effort. Be it SEA, Australia, or the SOPAC. It has good range and payload. Get it trained up, fast as you can.[;)]



tabpub -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/9/2005 11:15:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

This early B-25 unit is the first Med bomber that can be put into any area where it looks like the Japanese are making a major effort. Be it SEA, Australia, or the SOPAC. It has good range and payload. Get it trained up, fast as you can.[;)]


I am not sure of that. I have the 90th BS and ....don't remember the designation, but the 60+ plane BG (former Bolo unit that starts in the States), both equipped with the 25 deployed in the SWPAC area long before the Dutch B25 unit appears. Granted, that might be a function of the variability of the reinforcements.

<edited to add> after re-reading, perhaps you were speaking of this large 25 unit and not the Dutch one. And yes, I agree, those large BG can come in handy.



Halsey -> RE: Upgrading Air Units with No Production Aircraft (4/9/2005 1:28:58 PM)

This is the US unit. Not the Dutch one.
Didn't want him to miss out on it when he was on topic about B-18's.[;)]



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