Japanese Production Problems (Full Version)

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guderian39 -> Japanese Production Problems (4/11/2005 1:56:52 PM)

Hello,

in my current game (started as 1.2 being asap upgraded; now playing at 1.4) I face severe problems with the Japanese airframe production.
I play against Allied AI with hihgest level of difficulty.

The game now is in late december 1943, and a number of airframe factories have never started working.
The recource situation for both oil and standard resources is quite well, since Japan owns most of China, Burma, Southern Asia and all of NEI.
All oil wells and resource areas are fully working.
The Japanese merchant fleet is taking losses, but still fully operational.

In the course of the game, I switched a couple of aircraft and airframe factories, mainly to meet the demands for B5Ns and A6M*. Furthermore, I sat a couple of aircraft sites to research (in total 350 points, maximum was 500 research points).

Problem 1: To even for a single aircraft, the release date was moved forward. For the Judy, I had at least 200 research points constantly for 1,5 years - nothing happened.

To to the high anticipated demand, many aurframe factories where switch to Nakajima engines.

Problem 2: Some of the Nakajima airframe factories never ever produced a single airframe. Even so, I delivered reources and supply directly to some sites, they never produced anything.
Therefore, all aircraft production requiring Nakajima engines collapsed.

What went wrong?
The manual is of no help here.





harrer -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/11/2005 2:22:38 PM)

Maybe you need to restart your game with 1.4 and now ( or in june [8|]) with 1.5 to have the full benefit of the patch [;)]

Harrer



erstad -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/11/2005 3:52:07 PM)

There's several different issues embedded in here. Let's see if we can work through them.
quote:

ORIGINAL: guderian39

Problem 1: To even for a single aircraft, the release date was moved forward. For the Judy, I had at least 200 research points constantly for 1,5 years - nothing happened.

To to the high anticipated demand, many aurframe factories where switch to Nakajima engines.



The general consensus is that research does not work as documented. There may be a hidden random die roll that controls whether the date advances or not. The speculation is that the further from the date you are, the less likely you are to advance. You may not want to invest much (or any) into research.

quote:

ORIGINAL: guderian39

Problem 2: Some of the Nakajima airframe factories never ever produced a single airframe. Even so, I delivered reources and supply directly to some sites, they never produced anything.
Therefore, all aircraft production requiring Nakajima engines collapsed.



First, you don't deliver resource or supply to airframe factories. You deliver resource and oil to Heavy Industry (HI) centers, which produce supply, fuel, and HI points. The HI points go into a global pool and are used by the airframe factories. The AI generally will move resource and oil around to where it's needed, so if you're dumping it in Japan you're probably OK. (You are bring oil back, right? You only mentioned resource).

Need more info to figure out exactly what's going on. Main speculations:
- The factories in question are halted. If they say "Restart" they are not producing
- You have overexpanded industry and are running short of HI. What does your HI pool look like? (You can get this off the "I"nfo screen under the industry sections. The number in parens is your cumulative pool.
- The factories in question are still only doing research. Research doesn't produce planes, the research points are accounted for somewhere but do not show up on the plane replacement screen.

If this doesn't help, we'll dig a little deeper.



guderian39 -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/11/2005 4:17:35 PM)


quote:

The general consensus is that research does not work as documented. There may be a hidden random die roll that controls whether the date advances or not. The speculation is that the further from the date you are, the less likely you are to advance. You may not want to invest much (or any) into research.


Thanks. So I'll reassign all plants to production.

quote:

quote:

First, you don't deliver resource or supply to airframe factories. You deliver resource and oil to Heavy Industry (HI) centers, which produce supply, fuel, and HI points. The HI points go into a global pool and are used by the airframe factories. The AI generally will move resource and oil around to where it's needed, so if you're dumping it in Japan you're probably OK. (You are bring oil back, right? You only mentioned resource).


Oil is brought back as well. Resources and oil are unloadad at Osaka by Automatic Convoys. Flaw of raw materials is continous, nearly all AKs and most TKs are assigned to AI-operated Convoy System.

quote:

Need more info to figure out exactly what's going on. Main speculations:
- The factories in question are halted. If they say "Restart" they are not producing
- You have overexpanded industry and are running short of HI. What does your HI pool look like? (You can get this off the "I"nfo screen under the industry sections. The number in parens is your cumulative pool.
- The factories in question are still only doing research. Research doesn't produce planes, the research points are accounted for somewhere but do not show up on the plane replacement screen.

If this doesn't help, we'll dig a little deeper.


Thanks. I'll make sone screenprints from these reports tonight.
(Right now, it's 03.10 PM in Germany and I'm a my workplace[:-])
I'll post these screenprints tomorrow morning.



pauk -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/11/2005 6:00:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: guderian39


quote:

The general consensus is that research does not work as documented. There may be a hidden random die roll that controls whether the date advances or not. The speculation is that the further from the date you are, the less likely you are to advance. You may not want to invest much (or any) into research.




Thanks. So I'll reassign all plants to production.



If you have enough operational (by that i mean ac which you use in the moment - zeros, kates, etc) aircrafts in your pool, don't reassign this rd plants to the production again. Why? you will lose again plenty of supply (every repaired point cost 1.000 supply).

also, i suggest you leave those rd-plants. You are in december 43, so arrival date of some ac is closer then at the start of the game (Frank come in less than a year) and dice roll have greater chance to turns in your favour.

At least, you will gain some experience how rd works (or dont works). Certantly better than learn this in PBEM
[;)]



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/11/2005 7:26:49 PM)

Just a thought, but China, Manchoukouo and Taiwan also have HI and don't produce enough oil for it to run at 100%.

Oil and ressources are used in HI centers to produce HI points that are then used by specialized industry (armaments, vehicle, aircraft, engines factories and also merchant and naval shipyards). If you HI points pool is at 0, that means that your specialized industry is too big comparing to your "generic" industry (HI centers).

My rule is to use 90% or less of my HI total capacity (I mean that my specialized industry is big enough to use only 90% of my theorical HI production). It usually runs at 95% due to small ressources/oil shortages before new arrived, and having a reserve of HI points will be useful later in the war. These points are better used building a Tony than a Nate.



doktorblood -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/11/2005 8:09:02 PM)

I agree with Pauk. Don't overproduce the crappy Jap 1943 aircraft, just the minimum amount that you may require, and bank your HI points and engines to start cranking out some of the decent 1944 types when they become available.



guderian39 -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/12/2005 9:52:35 AM)

Thanks for the advice.
Yesterday night, I checked my info screen.
No factory is on hold.
The unused HI (value in brackets) is between 10 - 50, so HI seems to be running at full capacity.
Checking some old save files, the values has never been at zero.
Five of my Nakajima airframe plants (50% of all are at zero), every other plant has at least some positive value in the "Amount" column.

Even more strange is the Oscar II production. It's currently at a rate of 219 and has been at an average value of 300 since at least 1,5 years. The total output in the whole game (11-43!) is 23 machines.
All I managed to upgrade was a small unit of 12 in Manchuria.
Even so it is an inferior model, I would like to have the squadrons for later upgrading with V1.5. The plan was Ki.61 of which there are 750 in the pool - producing at an average rate of around 40.
So looking at the castastrophic Zeke, Kate and OscarII production, you might imagine what is waiting in the queue, pretending to be organizing.





[image]local://upfiles/15134/CE38966849D24E7C81A8F56529A635ED.jpg[/image]



pauk -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/12/2005 10:03:33 AM)

greetings, it is hard to say something just using data from your post.

If you want it, you can send me a turn and i will look into it today or tommorow...

kresimir_alajbeg@net.hr



guderian39 -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/12/2005 10:09:08 AM)

quote:

greetings, it is hard to say something just using data from your post.

If you want it, you can send me a turn and i will look into it today or tommorow...

kresimir_alajbeg@net.hr


Thanks for the offer.
I'd like to send you a file tomorrow.
It's on my private PC.



pauk -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/12/2005 10:47:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guderian39

The unused HI (value in brackets) is between 10 - 50, so HI seems to be running at full capacity.
Checking some old save files, the values has never been at zero.
Five of my Nakajima airframe plants (50% of all are at zero), every other plant has at least some positive value in the "Amount" column.

Even more strange is the Oscar II production. It's currently at a rate of 219 and has been at an average value of 300 since at least 1,5 years. The total output in the whole game (11-43!) is 23 machines.
All I managed to upgrade was a small unit of 12 in Manchuria.
Even so it is an inferior model, I would like to have the squadrons for later upgrading with V1.5. The plan was Ki.61 of which there are 750 in the pool - producing at an average rate of around 40.
So looking at the castastrophic Zeke, Kate and OscarII production, you might imagine what is waiting in the queue, pretending to be organizing.



No problem. What i can say from data you provided it that your unusued HI is to small, it could be that your "stockpiled HI" can't run all aircraft production. I'm always keep an eye on the HI to make sure my stockpile is growing from turn to turn. In late July i have more than 200 000 HI in the pool. But, as i mentioned before i have take a look and run several turn to (hope so) figure whats going on.

Also, your operational ac production (O II) looks really wierd. Now i'm really interested.

EDIT: oh, i noticed llater that your engine pool is empty (nakajima, mitsubishi). You cant produce more ac than you have engines.




Culiacan Mexico -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/12/2005 10:53:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: guderian39

Thanks for the advice.
Yesterday night, I checked my info screen.
No factory is on hold.
The unused HI (value in brackets) is between 10 - 50, so HI seems to be running at full capacity.
Checking some old save files, the values has never been at zero.
Five of my Nakajima airframe plants (50% of all are at zero), every other plant has at least some positive value in the "Amount" column.

Even more strange is the Oscar II production. It's currently at a rate of 219 and has been at an average value of 300 since at least 1,5 years. The total output in the whole game (11-43!) is 23 machines.
All I managed to upgrade was a small unit of 12 in Manchuria.
Even so it is an inferior model, I would like to have the squadrons for later upgrading with V1.5. The plan was Ki.61 of which there are 750 in the pool - producing at an average rate of around 40.
So looking at the castastrophic Zeke, Kate and OscarII production, you might imagine what is waiting in the queue, pretending to be organizing.





[image]local://upfiles/15134/CE38966849D24E7C81A8F56529A635ED.jpg[/image]
Possibilities:

Your picture indicates you need the following engines Mitsubishi 1015 and Nakajima 1579, while in the poll you have 3 of each. It is possible that the computer is grabing what engines are available each turn and building what aircraft it can… perhaps not the same one you would choose.

PS. Your picture indicates Mitsubishi engine production at 625 well below your needs, but I can’t tell if Nakajima production is 1022 or 3022… either way this is a problem as your need is 1579.




doktorblood -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/12/2005 11:13:31 AM)

OMG dude! You've run your HI pool down to nothing! No wonder you're not making any Oscars. The rate listed is the number of factories you have, not the number planes actually being produced.

If you need some Oscars you're going to have to turn off some other stuff ... like Tony since you got 750 in the pool and maybe expanding HI if you got enough oil ( my eyes aren't good enough to read the level of your oil pool, but it looks like you have quite a bit).



Culiacan Mexico -> RE: Japanese Production Problems (4/12/2005 11:39:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: doktorblood

OMG dude! You've run your HI pool down to nothing! ...

[X(]



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