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ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

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ORIGINAL: pompack

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ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

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ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Hi All, I'm looking for a good CV TF compisition for the allies. I have the bulk of my Yorktowns, all the Lexingtons, and 2 Essex right now.

Right now I'm broken down into:
2 CV
1 CVL
2 CA (Northhamptons or Baltimores)
2 CL (Clevelands, Helenas, or Brooklyns)
1 CLAA (Atlanta or Oakland)
7 DD (Fletchers or Bristols)

I was thinking of throwing in a newer BB into the mix for more AA, but right now my fastest model is only(only?) 27-28 knots, and I don't want it to slow down the TF. It might be worth the tradeoff but for now I'm going with speed.

Anyone see anything wrong, or anything that could be set up better?

Because of the rules set re air coordination it's smart (and just happens to represent Allied CV operational doctrine until later in the war) to use your CV assets in smaller TFs, each with a single CV, then have all these CV TFs sail together in the same hex. This allows all the collective flak in the hex to contribute to air defense and makes it likely no more than a couple of your precious CVs will come under attack from any given enemy CV TF or land-based air strike--and with luck only one of your CVs will come under attack. All of your AA cruisers should be in attendance, as well as your best AA-rated BB/CA/CL/DDs. spread out amongst the various CV TFs. To ensure this mob stays together, if possible include a ship that is at least a knot slower than the others and stick it in any CV TF, then order that CV TF lead the way, with the other TFs following along behind (this to ensure your lead CV TF doesn't inadvertently outpace the TFs in train).

I don't view speed as being the most important consideration in operations of this kind. The most important consideration is aircraft carrier safety! By including the North Carolina/South Dakota-class BBs you're only going to drop from 6/6 to 5/5, and when you think about it that 6/6 would likely be a 5/5 soon anyway just from normal wear and tear to one of your escorting ships. By starting out as 5/5 you're merely anticipating this inevitability. Meanwhile, by including these newer BBs in the mix you're adding a wealth of AA protection to your CVs, which are, after all, your most important assets. Also, as mentioned above, BBs act as bomb/torpedo magnets during battles, thus saving your CVs from that much more enemy attention. In a word, fast BBs in your mix can make the critical difference between winning and losing an air battle at sea.

The only drawback to this arrangement involves the rule re carrier reaction to enemy carriers. Unfortunately, these indivudual CV TFs will all react differently (i.e. it could be one or more will choose not to react, perhaps leaving then one or more CV TFs exposed to enemy reprisal alone). That's a pity, and yet another game mechanic which begs for review, but as long as that rule's in there it has to be dealt with, and so if I were you I'd set reaction to "0" for all your CV TFs. This will effectively guard against the worst case, though it might mean your carriers will not be close enough to strike back at your longer-armed enemy--they probably will be, assuming you know where the enemy CVs are and issue your course orders accordingly, but they might not.

Anyway, it's your fleet and the choice is always yours. Be creative if you want. [:)]

TJ:
Agree EXCEPT the flak is per TF. All the CAP in the hex will protect any TF in the hex, but the flak will only protect it's own TF.

Well, then I just learned something. That's been changed since UV. Do you have a manual page I can go to for that?

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ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Hi All, I'm looking for a good CV TF compisition for the allies. I have the bulk of my Yorktowns, all the Lexingtons, and 2 Essex right now.

Right now I'm broken down into:
2 CV
1 CVL
2 CA (Northhamptons or Baltimores)
2 CL (Clevelands, Helenas, or Brooklyns)
1 CLAA (Atlanta or Oakland)
7 DD (Fletchers or Bristols)

I was thinking of throwing in a newer BB into the mix for more AA, but right now my fastest model is only(only?) 27-28 knots, and I don't want it to slow down the TF. It might be worth the tradeoff but for now I'm going with speed.

Anyone see anything wrong, or anything that could be set up better?

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ORIGINAL: pompack

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ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

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ORIGINAL: pompack

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ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

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ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Hi All, I'm looking for a good CV TF compisition for the allies. I have the bulk of my Yorktowns, all the Lexingtons, and 2 Essex right now.

Right now I'm broken down into:
2 CV
1 CVL
2 CA (Northhamptons or Baltimores)
2 CL (Clevelands, Helenas, or Brooklyns)
1 CLAA (Atlanta or Oakland)
7 DD (Fletchers or Bristols)

I was thinking of throwing in a newer BB into the mix for more AA, but right now my fastest model is only(only?) 27-28 knots, and I don't want it to slow down the TF. It might be worth the tradeoff but for now I'm going with speed.

Anyone see anything wrong, or anything that could be set up better?

Because of the rules set re air coordination it's smart (and just happens to represent Allied CV operational doctrine until later in the war) to use your CV assets in smaller TFs, each with a single CV, then have all these CV TFs sail together in the same hex. This allows all the collective flak in the hex to contribute to air defense and makes it likely no more than a couple of your precious CVs will come under attack from any given enemy CV TF or land-based air strike--and with luck only one of your CVs will come under attack. All of your AA cruisers should be in attendance, as well as your best AA-rated BB/CA/CL/DDs. spread out amongst the various CV TFs. To ensure this mob stays together, if possible include a ship that is at least a knot slower than the others and stick it in any CV TF, then order that CV TF lead the way, with the other TFs following along behind (this to ensure your lead CV TF doesn't inadvertently outpace the TFs in train).

I don't view speed as being the most important consideration in operations of this kind. The most important consideration is aircraft carrier safety! By including the North Carolina/South Dakota-class BBs you're only going to drop from 6/6 to 5/5, and when you think about it that 6/6 would likely be a 5/5 soon anyway just from normal wear and tear to one of your escorting ships. By starting out as 5/5 you're merely anticipating this inevitability. Meanwhile, by including these newer BBs in the mix you're adding a wealth of AA protection to your CVs, which are, after all, your most important assets. Also, as mentioned above, BBs act as bomb/torpedo magnets during battles, thus saving your CVs from that much more enemy attention. In a word, fast BBs in your mix can make the critical difference between winning and losing an air battle at sea.

The only drawback to this arrangement involves the rule re carrier reaction to enemy carriers. Unfortunately, these indivudual CV TFs will all react differently (i.e. it could be one or more will choose not to react, perhaps leaving then one or more CV TFs exposed to enemy reprisal alone). That's a pity, and yet another game mechanic which begs for review, but as long as that rule's in there it has to be dealt with, and so if I were you I'd set reaction to "0" for all your CV TFs. This will effectively guard against the worst case, though it might mean your carriers will not be close enough to strike back at your longer-armed enemy--they probably will be, assuming you know where the enemy CVs are and issue your course orders accordingly, but they might not.

Anyway, it's your fleet and the choice is always yours. Be creative if you want. [:)]

TJ:
Agree EXCEPT the flak is per TF. All the CAP in the hex will protect any TF in the hex, but the flak will only protect it's own TF.

Well, then I just learned something. That's been changed since UV. Do you have a manual page I can go to for that?

I don't believe that it is explicitly in the manual; there was a thread on the subject a LONG time ago (late summer?) and that was the betazoid position. I tried a test (1 AK TF and 15 ship CA/DD TF in the same hex) and the results (only three trials) seemed to support this. Attacks on the AK never damaged any a/c and attacks on the CA/DD TF had a large number of damage reports against the attacking a/c.

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Could someone please clarify the rule about multiple allied CVs in the same TF. How bad is the penalty, and how many CVs do you need to have in the same TF before it kicks in?

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ORIGINAL: Nikademus

TF's that contain up to 15 warships add up their cumulative AA with no modificaiton. From the 16th ship onward the cumulative effect for ship 16-25 is less than 100% of the AA value of those ships.

This "penalty" is often misunderstood. It doesn't mean that a 20 ship TF for example wont have more total AA than a 15 ship TF, you just dont have as much AA for the 16th-25th ship as if their AA value was added without a % of it being docked off.

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ORIGINAL: Beezle

1) I tend to mass _all_ my CVs. I put them in separate TFs to stay at about 15 ships/TF but they all stay in the same hex (one moving, the rest following)

2) I have found that adding an ASW TF is very useful. Maybe 10-12 DDs on ASW, also assigned to follow the lead TF. They seem to take on the Subs before the subs get near the CVs.

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And of course all your DDs will contribute as ASW/surface escorts.

• DDs in an ASW TF are looking to fight enemy submarines. If an enemy SCTF shows up, all else being equal, they are screwed.
  
• Escorts in an air combat TF are looking to fight enemy aircraft. If an enemy SCTF shows up, all else being equal, they are screwed. If an enemy sub shows up, they may handle it, or then again they may not.
  
• Ships in a bombardment TF are looking to blow up an enemy airbase. If an enemy SCTF shows up, all else being equal, they are screwed.
  
• If there might possibly be an enemy SCTF to fight, you had better have an SCTF of your own, or else you will be screwed.
  

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ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

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Could someone please clarify the rule about multiple allied CVs in the same TF. How bad is the penalty, and how many CVs do you need to have in the same TF before it kicks in?

There is no multiple CV's in hex penalty.

As far as CV's *in* a TF, it is in the manual, rule 7.2.2.11 (pg 130/131)

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

My two cents. My carrier TF will always have at least one fast BB as soon as they are availble. In fact I think that these ships are too valuable as carrier escort to waste in surface actions. Leave the surface fights to the CAs and DDs. In reality, with the end of the big gun era already a hard fact, these ships (BBs), real purpose was as AA platforms. Turns out they were well suited for that.