Will there be a demo? (Full Version)

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James Ward -> Will there be a demo? (4/21/2005 3:17:03 PM)

Well? [:)]



ericbabe -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/21/2005 6:53:43 PM)

Not a demo. There will (we are planning...) be a Flash presentation that will walk one through the game, doubling as an advertising tool and a player tutorial.

Eric



James Ward -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/21/2005 7:33:46 PM)

Thanks.



ptan54 -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/24/2005 8:29:15 PM)

Any idea which game will come out first - Crown of Glory or Empires in Arms? The latter has been in development for years, I believe.



Uncle_Joe -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/25/2005 1:28:12 AM)

I've kind of given up hope on Empires in Arms for now. I first found about it last summer and the speculation was that it would be out in the Fall...then just before Christmas...then after Christmas...etc etc. They are supposedly closer now, but I've heard that before.

I'm hoping that Crown of Glory is a suitable replacement and that it actually gets completed some time in the Spring/early Summer. My only other 'period' games are EU2 and Imperialism 2, both of which I like very much, but neither does much to simulate the Napoleonic campaigns very well.



ptan54 -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/26/2005 9:51:21 AM)

Considering that EiA doesn't have a tactical mode, Crown of Glory looks more promising....but I get the feeling it won't be ready until 2007 at the earliest.



sol_invictus -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/26/2005 5:44:51 PM)

The word is that CoG will be ready this summer.



Reverberate -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/26/2005 10:28:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ptan54

Considering that EiA doesn't have a tactical mode, Crown of Glory looks more promising....but I get the feeling it won't be ready until 2007 at the earliest.

Yes, Crown's tactical game and it sim-move strategic game make it look VERY promising. Yet, EiA is the only one that will ship with a PBEM mode.



ericbabe -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/27/2005 6:51:46 AM)

quote:


Yes, Crown's tactical game and it sim-move strategic game make it look VERY promising. Yet, EiA is the only one that will ship with a PBEM mode.


The PBEM mode for CoG is now finished and will function in the release version. It is PBEM at the strategic level only.


Eric



Reverberate -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/27/2005 7:13:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe
The PBEM mode for CoG is now finished and will function in the release version. It is PBEM at the strategic level only.

Superb! Then let the game release race be on! (Not to worry, I'm sure to buy both--games are my only vice......)



Le Tondu -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/27/2005 7:55:28 PM)

Both games indeed. "Crown of Glory" and "Black Powder Wars: Battles Of Napoleon" are certainly on my "To Do" list.



Uncle_Joe -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/28/2005 4:26:41 AM)

Can you play the tactical battles if playing Multi-player using Direct Play?

Thanx!



ericbabe -> RE: Will there be a demo? (4/28/2005 6:16:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

Can you play the tactical battles if playing Multi-player using Direct Play?

Thanx!


Yes.

Thanks for the interest,
Eric



huzzah -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/12/2005 4:11:00 PM)

Just curious as to why the decision was made for no demo. It's just that it is a consumer friendly gesture to offer that most gamers really appreciate.[&:]



Le Tondu -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/12/2005 5:07:03 PM)

I have to say that I support the decision not to have a demo. I know demos are great to have and all, but when I consider how much work it might take to make one, I am against it.

I am against it because the development team is only so big and I'd rather have them spend their valuable time releasing the game. We've waited long enough for a great Napoleo nic game like this. I want it now.

Fear not, huzzah. IF this game turns out to be a dud, rest assured that you will know it soon enough and your hard earned money won't be wasted. There are plenty of us who will go for it right away. ---And there are plenty of us who will not be afraid to tell it like it is.

[:)]



Hertston -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/12/2005 9:00:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: huzzah

Just curious as to why the decision was made for no demo. It's just that it is a consumer friendly gesture to offer that most gamers really appreciate.[&:]



Probably because its also a time-consuming, expensive, consumer friendly gesture. Its also a rather trickier decision with strategy games than with shooters and RTS. The more complex a game/demo is the less people trying it are likely to put in the time to get through the initial learning curve - demos sell games on the basis on graphics and basic gameplay, not deep strategy. I know Panther think the original Airborne Assault demo lost them more sales than it gained. Downloaders wanted a pretty 3D RTS, not a wargame, and were busy posting "this game is crap" messages after 2 minutes play-time.



huzzah -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/13/2005 12:52:34 PM)

Well, I'll sure be looking for those reviews. I am more of a "try before you buy" kind of guy, but if it's not available, it's not available.



huzzah -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/13/2005 1:41:42 PM)

One thing I think is positive about a demo is the fact that you can get some consumer feedback about what might not be working in the game for the people you're actually planning on selling the game to. Personally, if I were a dev., I'd rather have bad press after a demo, rework the game based on carefully reviewed suggestions (say if 65% to 75% want a certain change or addition do it), and re-release the demo with a list of the changes.

I think a format could easily be constructed to support this, like using polls and a time frame. Maybe giving a month after posting the demo for people to make suggestions, conduct the polls, and gather the info. I think you'ld have a much happier customer base, and once the word got around about how responsive you are to your customers, you'ld attract a lot more people.

I've only been following the game forums for about 7 months so maybe this is done, but I haven't really seen it yet myself, just some unofficial polls put up by forum members themselves. The whole idea is if you listen to what your customer wants, and you give it to them, you'll make lots of money.

I think earlier on in pc gaming development it was such a new phenomona we didn't know what we wanted, we thought it was cool just because it was new. "Civilization" was basically an automated board game with visual and sound effects. Now we're all a lot more sophisticated as far as our knowledge of pc gaming. People do know more of what they want, or would like to see. Anyway, I'm speachifying now. I'll stop.



Le Tondu -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/13/2005 4:44:04 PM)

huzzah,

Your ideas are valid and they are certainly one way to do "it."

We have to remember that Matrix Games is a collection of small game developers. A collection of small independent companies. With so many games being developed by Matrix Games, it is too easy to think that they're a single BIG company with deep pockets. Now, if they were a BIG company, it would be a lot easier to put out demos.

You know, you should keep coming back here and checking out what screenshots, etc... are being released. This way, your valuable input won't be missed.




Le Tondu -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/13/2005 4:46:55 PM)

You know, on second thought there is another Napoleonic game beind developed by MG. It is called "Black Powder Wars: Battles Of Napoleon". It is a tactical game with a campaign sequel that has been forcasted. Check it out here :

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp%3Fforumid%3D186



ericbabe -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/13/2005 6:40:58 PM)


Matrix' recommendation to us based on their experience was that demos do not substantially help sales in anything near the proportion of their cost to produce. The notion is that, with a strategy game, if you give away enough to make a good demo then you've given away most of the game: as Hertston describes, it is trickier to demo a TBS than, say, a FPS.


Eric



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/13/2005 7:10:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

Can you play the tactical battles if playing Multi-player using Direct Play?

Thanx!


Yes.

Thanks for the interest,
Eric



I am bit lost here, additional explanation would help...

I primarily buy games to play PBEM (or direct play vs other humans). I don't care for AI except as training partner, and I don't care much for demo (so, in effect, I am trying to hijack this thread [:D]).

Now correct me if I say something wrong. If I understand right COG will have two distinctive phases: strategic phase played on the map of Europe, and tactical, for resolving specific battles. Both phases will be turn based right? So tactical phase will be turn-based tacbattle inside turn-based strategic turn, yes?

PBEM will be supported but only on strategic level? Players playing PBEM will have their tactical battles resolved automatically? Did I get this right?

Yet, "if playing Multi-player using Direct Play" we will have the ability to play tac battles over net vs other humans? How so? Can it be made we play strat level game in PBEM mode, and then resolve tac battles in that same PBEM game, using direct play mode?

What about human vs human (PBEM or net play) games with more than two humans? Different players controlling different powers? Will that be possible?

Additional explanation of multiplayer modes and game mechanics would be welcome, thanks.

Finally I agree with guys who are enthusiastic about this title - it does look very promising [&o] But with so many Nappy titles currently in development (3 IIRC?) we need more details to understand in what they are different from each other.

O.



Mr. Z -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/14/2005 12:12:24 AM)


quote:

Now correct me if I say something wrong. If I understand right COG will have two distinctive phases: strategic phase played on the map of Europe, and tactical, for resolving specific battles. Both phases will be turn based right? So tactical phase will be turn-based tacbattle inside turn-based strategic turn, yes?

Hi Oleg--that is correct.

quote:

PBEM will be supported but only on strategic level? Players playing PBEM will have their tactical battles resolved automatically? Did I get this right?

Yes.

quote:

Yet, "if playing Multi-player using Direct Play" we will have the ability to play tac battles over net vs other humans? How so?

TCP/IP

quote:

Can it be made we play strat level game in PBEM mode, and then resolve tac battles in that same PBEM game, using direct play mode?

No. The code will not allow PBEM for strategic mode, though it may be possible to offer a separate, tactical-only version for PBEM in the future. This was discussed on the "PMEM [sic] or not" thread (you have to view threads older than 30 days to find it.)

quote:

What about human vs human (PBEM or net play) games with more than two humans? Different players controlling different powers? Will that be possible?

Of course!

quote:

Additional explanation of multiplayer modes and game mechanics would be welcome, thanks.

Eric can supply this.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/14/2005 12:50:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Z
quote:

Yet, "if playing Multi-player using Direct Play" we will have the ability to play tac battles over net vs other humans? How so?

TCP/IP


Thanks Mr. Z, but some things are still unclear to me (so I took liberty to resurrect the PBEM thread). I'd miss that important thread - thanks for the heads up.

When I asked "how so?" I didn't mean technically. Of course I expect it would use TCP/IP. I meant to ask.... IF both strat and tac parts WILL be turn based (and they will) why should not tac part be played via PBEM too?

I do not belong to stubborn and agrressive customers with "I won't buy this game !!" attitude, I merely wonder why tac battles can't be PBEM-ed if they are turn based, just like strat part of the game? I am OK either way, I just wonder.

O.



huzzah -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/17/2005 5:41:33 PM)

Thanks for the invite Le Tondu.



huzzah -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/17/2005 5:43:13 PM)

Do you have a date for the flash presentation? Will it include movies of battle resolution?



ericbabe -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/17/2005 10:46:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: huzzah

Do you have a date for the flash presentation? Will it include movies of battle resolution?


Thanks for the continued interest. Sorry I'm slow to respond of late.

No date for flash yet... sometime in June I suspect. I hope it'll show animated sequences for detailed battle resolution, but can't guarantee it.


Eric



jamo262 -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/21/2005 4:01:06 PM)

Why not release a demo of a tactical historical battle like Austerlitz or Waterloo? It could just be a hot seat version with no AI (if thats easier). It would be good for us because we have been so starved of Napeleonics and EiA is taking sooo long.,[:)]



Le Tondu -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/21/2005 5:30:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jamo262

Why not release a demo of a tactical historical battle like Austerlitz or Waterloo? It could just be a hot seat version with no AI (if thats easier). It would be good for us because we have been so starved of Napeleonics and EiA is taking sooo long.,[:)]


Quick answer?

This is a small company and it is far, far more important to release the game than to waste time on a demo.



sol_invictus -> RE: Will there be a demo? (5/21/2005 6:35:29 PM)

I agree; we all know we want it; just concentrate on finishing the game.



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