de Ruyter rebourne........ (Full Version)

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wild_Willie2 -> de Ruyter rebourne........ (4/29/2005 10:34:56 PM)

may I present the latest addition to the Royal Dutch navy

Air defence and command frigate "de Ruyter ", sounds familiar ?

[image]local://upfiles/14273/A6A5332BAA8A46E9BC793540FFDA7653.jpg[/image]



The Gnome -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 10:37:20 PM)

Very cool looking :) I assume from the lines she is stealthy - and if my eyes don't deceive, her hull looks like some sort of polymer.



wild_Willie2 -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 10:43:10 PM)

She has indeed Stealth tech. incorparated, but it is al hush hush.......

Tech data. (quickly translated)

Technische gegevens

displacement : 6.050 ton

size (Lxw): 144 x 17 meters

speed: 30 knots

prpulsion : 2 Wartsila16 V26 dieselmotor 13.600 pk / 2 Rolls Royce Spey SM 1A gasturbines 52.300 pk

crew 174 (202 incl. Staf)

Armament: Oto Breda-gun 127 mm, Vertical Launch System (VLS) Mk 41 for Enhanced Sea Sparrow Missile en Standard Missile 2, Block III Harpoon Missile, Goalkeeper
Oerlikon-Mg's 20 mm, Mk. 46 Torpedo-system, Lynx or NH-90 helikopter



Iridium -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:03:07 PM)

Kinda suprised they stuck with just a 30kt top speed...Unless they're lying, but they'd never do that. [:'(]

Polymer hulls do make more sense these days, lighter and easy to produce. No corrosion, probably less radar signature.

When did navies start calling 6,050 ton vessels FF's anyhow?...This would be a CL in WWII terms. I guess it's the nature of the vessel, not the mass.

Diesel?...would have thought everyone was going gas turbine by now...probably something I'd have to look at.



rtrapasso -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:06:07 PM)

It's diesel AND turbine. Shut off the turbines - good cruise range. Turn them on for speed



Iridium -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:07:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

It's diesel AND turbine. Shut off the turbines - good cruise range. Turn them on for speed



Your right, missed that...



wild_Willie2 -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:09:09 PM)

A good milage, always important for the Dutch [;)]



wild_Willie2 -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:12:02 PM)

They have this new radar installed, it is not as powerfull as aegis, but comes pretty close. Combine this with a 140 mile range standard block 2 missile, and you have a exelent air defence "cruiser"



Iridium -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:22:57 PM)

What's the range of the Block III Harpoon?...Last I knew these things could go 60-90 NM

Haven't really been keeping up with recent naval designs and tech., and if the gun is so useless then why do we keep seeing these auto 127mm guns on the bow of ships. The only reason I can think of is if you need to put a small hole in a beach or run into a merchent ship that cut you off in a harbour. [:D]



wild_Willie2 -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:35:26 PM)

A "shot across the bow" gets a little expensive with a harpoon [;)]

Guns still have their use for shore bombardment and to ward of attacks from small and fast attack craft, or even air defence.........



Iridium -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:47:28 PM)

I always suspected that these weapons weren't all that great at AA unless they're integrated with radar systems. Do these guns traverse quicker than I think? Plus at the range of 5,000 yards I'm not sure you could even use a Harpoon...don't they have a safety range till they go active?

I didn't think that this vessel, being a command FF was gonna do simple interdiction missions by itself. I always look at these ships and think that the designers didn't know what to put on the bow so they stuck a token gun on it.



Mr.Frag -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:49:21 PM)

quote:

Unless they're lying, but they'd never do that.


They are ... no one ever quotes speeds over 30 kts anymore, they all just say 30 kts [:D]

Hell, there are subs that go faster then that now.



Iridium -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/29/2005 11:52:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
They are ... no one ever quotes speeds over 30 kts anymore, they all just say 30 kts [:D]

Hell, there are subs that go faster then that now.


I'm sorry I must not have had my "Sarcastatron Ultra" TM on.



Martti -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/30/2005 12:00:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iridium
Haven't really been keeping up with recent naval designs and tech., and if the gun is so useless then why do we keep seeing these auto 127mm guns on the bow of ships. The only reason I can think of is if you need to put a small hole in a beach or run into a merchent ship that cut you off in a harbour. [:D]


Here (link) is an article on Russian naval guns and why ships still carry guns.



Iridium -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/30/2005 1:56:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Martti
Here (link) is an article on Russian naval guns and why ships still carry guns.


It all makes sense, I just felt like attacking gun lovers for once. I'm usually the guy defending the abilities of BB's from CV fanboys. Won't do it again, just doesn't feel right to me defending stand-off weaponry. Never did like the idea of destroying a target you never saw.



Feinder -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/30/2005 2:06:02 AM)

I'll betcha it's goes a wee faster than 30 kts...

[8D]
-F-



kellyc -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/30/2005 11:17:38 PM)

No Navies state a speed higher then 30+ knots. Note the + part [;)]

Somethings you should let the enemy find out the hard way. If you go through Janes and the like you should see this often at least that's what I remember seeing.

Naturally ships can go faster (in some cases alot faster). Then there's the emergency speed where you fry out the engines but you really haul a$$.


Kelly



EUBanana -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/30/2005 11:26:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Unless they're lying, but they'd never do that.


They are ... no one ever quotes speeds over 30 kts anymore, they all just say 30 kts [:D]

Hell, there are subs that go faster then that now.


Not exactly "now", the Soviet Victor was faster than 30 knots and that was in the Sixties.

I heard a Victor could outrun a torpedo, dont know if its true or not, but thats pretty spiff if so. [:D]



Ramjet -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (4/30/2005 11:27:18 PM)

The Dutch have always had good small warships. I operated with the Van Kinsbergen while on Standing Naval Forces Med. operations back in 94. Toured the ship, very well put together. They aren't engineering platforms that happen to have weapons like US ships, they are built from keel up with the weapons in mind. As for the speed, no one goes 30 knots anymore, it's too expensive!! Only the Nukes do those speeds consistantly.



kellyc -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 12:26:16 AM)

Didn't hear about a Victor, but I know about the Alfa which stated speed (probably in bursts only) is 42 knots, probably can outrun some of the early versions of the MK46.
Course going 42 knots is going to let the entire region know you're around so good news bad news.


Kelly



Knavey -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 1:56:33 AM)

When CVN-71 went balls to the wall, it was a bit more than 30 knots and anyone listening could here us on the other side of whatever pond we were sailing on at that particular moment.



madflava13 -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 1:58:00 AM)

I've seen 688 Fast Attacks going at least 30 kts on the surface... Used to live outside of Groton, CT and we'd meet the fast attacks as they came in off patrols - lots of fun riding the wake of one of those bad boys.



Knavey -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 4:08:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

I've seen 688 Fast Attacks going at least 30 kts on the surface... Used to live outside of Groton, CT and we'd meet the fast attacks as they came in off patrols - lots of fun riding the wake of one of those bad boys.


Never saw anyone ride the wake of TR (except dolphins and they normally rode the bow wave)...might have made quite the picture.



madflava13 -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 6:07:23 AM)

Yeah, you couldn't get too close because the security boats would get pissed... But you could still catch some nice air off the wake astern of the boats. Granted this was back in the late 1980s before all the terror attacks increased security. I bet you couldn't get within half a mile of one now.



mike charley 7 -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 7:00:21 AM)

multi millions of dollars, new technology, best damn boat to ever grace the seas, etc

but all it takes is one missle, torpedo or mine and all that bling sits on the bottom..



ChezDaJez -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 10:57:03 AM)

quote:

Not exactly "now", the Soviet Victor was faster than 30 knots and that was in the Sixties.

I heard a Victor could outrun a torpedo, dont know if its true or not, but thats pretty spiff if so.


No Victor could do 30 knots. And no way would it outrun a Mk-46, let alone a Mk-48 or Mk-50 torp. The Victor I was the fastest (and the noisiest) of the 3 Victor classes (VI, VII, VIII). Having had the opportunity to chase several of them in the P-3 flying days using SSQ-63 DICASS sonobuoys, I've seen them use every tactic in the book from evasive maneuvering to flank speed runs trying to break contact (funny what a submarine will do when it hears short-scale pinging from an active sonobuoy close aboard). They act like it's an attack mode [:D] or something!

The first Soviet sub to break 30 knots was the Alfa. The Akula, while not as fast as the LAs, can exceed 30 knots. The Sierra is slower than the Akula. The Severodvinsk SSN was after I retired so I never had a chance to fly on it.

Chez



Raverdave -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 11:48:40 AM)

IIRC another big factor in a ship's speed is the length of it's hull. Don't ask me why because I wouldn't have a clue.[:(]



Raverdave -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 12:01:57 PM)

*sniff* All this talk about Harpoons and modern ships is making me sad for the fact that Harpoon 4 was cancelled. *Sob*



kellyc -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 12:13:46 PM)

Well Harpoon3 isn't bad and last I heard they're still working on MP (I was a beta tester at the beginning of it). Then of course there is HC2002 which is a new and improved Classics version (another thing I beta tested.)

I think I burned out on modern naval war cuz I haven't tinkered with any of the various harpoons in nearly a year. Sad but that happens from time to time, maybe one day I'll get sucked back into it.


Kelly



Raverdave -> RE: de Ruyter reborne........ (5/1/2005 12:53:47 PM)

I was kinda hoping that Matrix would take up the banner and publish H4, but that looks like it is not going to happen.[:(]



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