Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties.

Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (Full Version)

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Desertdaddy -> Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 12:16:42 AM)
If the number of pilots is less then the total number of bombers in the Daitai, no missions (combat or search) are performed at all. I used pilot fatigue to indicate a pilot flew for the day no matter if it was a combat mission and/or search mission. In addition, if this Daitai’s intended mission would normally use sortie points (Naval, Port, Airfield or Ground attack), more sorties then normal are deducted from the parent ship’s sortie total when included in a TF with CVs that do perform a combat mission. Fighters do not seem to be effected by either of these bugs. Found this while playing scenario 15 as Japanese v AI using new start under 1.5. Playing now in March 42. Confirmed it by running test in tutorial and for 3 weeks under scenario 15 that I’m playing. Saves available on request. Before anyone asks, I know planes have to make rolls to fly combat missions and there are a ton of factors that can scrub a mission. After observing this for 3 weeks game time and varying altitudes, type of mission and % of naval search and ASW in a target rich environment, I decided to post it. How to notice this bug: Start off with a Carrier Daitai that is balanced with pilot to plane numbers. The pilots do what they are told, as soon as number of pilots is less then planes, (by using “allow replacements” and not using the “get new pilot” is one way), these Daitai stop flying completely. After weeks of doing nothing (zero fatigue for all pilots), increase number of pilots to equal number of planes and magically the Daitai suddenly starts performing missions to include searches and ASW. Create a TF with as many CVs as you want, rearm it so sorties are at 100%. Check each CV just to be sure. See if any carrier has an undermanned Daitai. Watch that CV’s sortie total very closely. Go perform a combat mission (ground, naval, port, airfield). Now observe the sortie total for each CV in the TF. Any CV with at lease one of these undermanned bomber Daitai will have less sorties remaining then the other CVs. Find a CV with 2 undermanned Daitai’s and sortie remaining total will drop to zero after just one day, even though none of the pilots has an increase in fatigue in these undermanned Daitai. This bug is important to the Japanese player because he has to micromanage his naval pilots to keep their experience up.

kaiser73 -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 12:53:46 AM)
if it is true, it is a gamebreaker. every CV battle may be affected by this [:@]

Tanaka -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 1:59:21 AM)
interesting... this could be a big one.... [:(]

Gregg -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 2:01:14 AM)
I think I have seen the same thing happening in my new PMEM game under patch 1.5 using Mr. Brown's map mod.[:(] Last turn my carrier group (four Japanese carriers) burned 190 sorties for a less than 25 aircraft attack on an American task force containing two carriers.[:(] All in all, after three days worth of attacks, I have gotten maybe 50 Japanese planes to the American task force for the expenditure of about 700 sorties![sm=00000018.gif] Yes, this could very well be a game breaker![:@] Gregg

BaitBoy -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 2:11:27 AM)
I noticed something similer in my PBEM game. The bombers and torpedo planes damaged an american CA. The next day the Zeros sortied on what appeared to be an escort mission as I got the combat animation, but there were no attack planes. The CA sunk the next turn from the previous damade so I did not think anything of it until now. Desertdaddy, one of the mods has a sig with a link of where you should send the save. Please send it in.

2Stepper -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 3:23:24 AM)
You do pose an interesting question with this however. Is this happening on mod'ed games only, or an unchanged ones as well? Worth a look into that also, cause if this is all types and both sides, this lil "problem" will need a bigtime fix.

doktorblood -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 3:36:34 AM)
I've noticed that carrier groups have been goofy since the patch. They jave been reluctant to fly strikes even when well rested and with high morale. Not just the Japs either, although it's more noticable with them since I've ssen them refuse to fly the Pearl Harbour strike several times ... something I never witnessed a single time prior to the patch. Land based groups aren't launching as many aircraft either. These don't seem to be affecting naval strikes though ... just land targets.

BaitBoy -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 4:11:09 AM)
In my most recent PBEM game (un-modified in any way) that not a single attack of any kind was launched by Japanese (me) airplanes. No ground attacks, no ASW attacks (except one by a plane on naval search), and no naval attacls. Once the fighters launched on what appered to be an escort mission, but there were no bombers. I understand that there is a random die roll involved in launching the attack, but please! No attacks at all?? [X(]

Desertdaddy -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 5:00:41 AM)
Save sent. The workaround is very careful management of your carrier’s bombers. Only send out CVs with fully manned Daitai and hopefully you will notice any under manning in time to set that Daitai to stand down until you can fill it up with new pilots. Otherwise your CV will be out of sorties real fast, but at least the CAP will still fly. This does take a big bite out of your Death Star’s power especially if you start taking losses. It’s no big deal if you don’t mind watering down your super skilled carrier pilots with 30 ish skill level newbies.

Captain Ed -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 5:05:22 AM)
I am presently battling Spooky with me as the Japanese. After sailing away from my PH attack, I stopped off and bombed Johnston Island a few turns. A report of a USN carrier north of Kwajalein came in and I race off to deal with it and 'lo and behold' all the planes in KB are in training mode luckily I caught it before closing with the US battle group. I am sure I did not put all aircraft in training mode that would have mean`t diligently changing orders. I am still searching for the US CVBG but I check my plane orders verey turn.[&:]

Gregg -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 5:15:42 AM)
I just noticed another funny thing going on on my latest PBEM game turn. I have many Naval land based bomber units with now well over 27 A/C, with the "accept replacements" turned off. I saw 31, 32 and 33 A/c units that are supose to be limited to 27A/C. All this has happed in less than 2 1/2 weeks of game time. Can I expect 48 A/C units soon?[8\|] Gregg

Mr.Frag -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 5:22:00 AM)
See your email DD

Charles2222 -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 9:15:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gregg I just noticed another funny thing going on on my latest PBEM game turn. I have many Naval land based bomber units with now well over 27 A/C, with the "accept replacements" turned off. I saw 31, 32 and 33 A/c units that are supose to be limited to 27A/C. All this has happed in less than 2 1/2 weeks of game time. Can I expect 48 A/C units soon?[8\|] Gregg If you split any groups and while they are split you had reinforcements on, it might work that way (be sure to turn off on splits). I don't think I've had any groups get larger, as the excess goes into repair and then into reserve.

Djordje -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 1:12:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gregg I just noticed another funny thing going on on my latest PBEM game turn. I have many Naval land based bomber units with now well over 27 A/C, with the "accept replacements" turned off. I saw 31, 32 and 33 A/c units that are supose to be limited to 27A/C. All this has happed in less than 2 1/2 weeks of game time. Can I expect 48 A/C units soon?[8\|] Gregg Prior to 1.5 most of Japanese bomber squadrons had more planes than their nominal strength, if it was 27 they had up to 36 planes, but only 27 pilots. I have not yet started a game under 1.5 so I don't know if they are still there or they had been reduced to their normal capacity (as there was lots of talk about them sucking all the trained pilots). Maybe this is the reason for your problem.

Speedysteve -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 2:54:01 PM)
Is this an 'official' problem? Might be why Werner managed to heavily damage a KB carrier which only had 29 Zero's on CAP (3 carriers in TF). Or that might just be my bad planning [;)] Steven

Erik Rutins -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 4:42:00 PM)
We'll check into this - the problem is that there are so many factors (historically and in the game) that could cause poor coordination or performance that we don't know if there's a problem until we can isolate the reported issue and test the heck out of it. DesertDaddy, if you still have those save files with tests set up to duplicate this, please e-mail them to erikr@matrixgames.com and send Mr. Frag your e-mail too please. Regards, - Erik

tsimmonds -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 4:49:00 PM)
I started a new 1.5 game last night as Allies vs the IJ AI; no IJN strike a/c went to Pearl, only some fighters.

moses -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 5:16:01 PM)
The original poster outlined a very simple test that should be able to be tested very quickly. Why doesn't someone just try it and confirm or disprove it. Then post results. All the talk about another"gamebreaker" seems unfounded until at least one other person has confirmed this in a controlled fashon. I would do it but I've been at work rather continuously lately. In my recent game as allies my JP opponent is bombing me just fine.

Mr.Frag -> RE: Japanese carrier born bombers not flying and using to many sorties. (5/18/2005 8:17:10 PM)
Closed ... confirmed ... thanks

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