Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (Full Version)

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Synjin -> Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 1:18:32 AM)

What does the allies ship LCI(G) do? I know that LCI's are used to carry in infantry for invasion forces, but the LCI(G) doesn't have any capacity to carry infantry. So what is it exactly that LCI(G)'s accomplish? Is it something similar to the AGC role? Or are they a guboat version of the LCI that is just meant to protect the the other LC's during an invasion?



Terminus -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 1:19:48 AM)

They're meant for close-in fire support during beach landings. Or at least they were historically; I haven't advanced far enough into the game to actually see one yet. [:)]



Synjin -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 1:25:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

They're meant for close-in fire support during beach landings. Or at least they were historically; I haven't advanced far enough into the game to actually see one yet. [:)]


Hah! Me either... but I'm playing around with the Marianas scenario as a change of pace.



deggo -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 5:14:04 AM)

I've searched for clues on here for what to do with those LCI's, LST's and the LCI(G)'s. I was hoping that putting all those landing craft in the invasion hex would let me shuttle troops from the AP's faster. I never have found a clear answer on this board or in the manual on how to use them.
I've used them land troops from one of my bases to an enemy base that was only a few hexes away. I loaded the LCI's with Marines on Goodenough Island to land at Buna once and set it to continous supply. I was hoping they would continue to go back and reload till that Marine division was all landed. I think I had to keep manually ordering them to reload the Marines. I'm not sure if just using another couple of AP's would have ben better?
I did get the LCI(G)'s to bombard but don't know how effective it was.
Any tips on how to use these or the best way to load up for a major assault would be appreciated.





madflava13 -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 5:27:20 AM)

You place those specialized ships in an invasion TF... LCI(G)s cut down on the "shots fired in defense" from shore... So incorporating fire support ships limits the number of casualties you take, which means more boots on the ground/more assault strength. APAs, LSTs, LCIs, LSDs all unload troops faster, meaning more boots on the ground as well. Having an Amphib HQ on a command ship will decrease disruption to troops because command and control is nearby...



tsimmonds -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 2:04:09 PM)

quote:

I loaded the LCI's with Marines on Goodenough Island to land at Buna once and set it to continous supply. I was hoping they would continue to go back and reload till that Marine division was all landed. I think I had to keep manually ordering them to reload the Marines. I'm not sure if just using another couple of AP's would have ben better?


"Continuous Supply" doesn't work with units only supply, whether using LCs or APs same diff. Ideally, your landing craft are best used in transporting the assault wave(s) of your invasions. Use APs for follow-ons.



Oliver Heindorf -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 2:15:20 PM)

those Elsie-Items were introduced in 1944 in the Marshall-Landings after the USN found out that they need more close range fire support on the landing beaches. These boats and their skippers were found useful and the USN introduced them to the V. Phib in large numbers. After a while in some landings every 4thto 6th boat was a LCI(G) version.



Graymane -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 4:55:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: deggo

I've searched for clues on here for what to do with those LCI's, LST's and the LCI(G)'s.


This is somewhat covered in the manual, especially the important part on why and when to use them. BTW, you can fire up the marianas campaign as the allies and see how to use a bunch of them. Basically, barges are the best way to get your troops on shore in the shortest amount of time. This is especially true on atolls. In the manual there is a section on amphib landings and there are two tables. The first table gives you the loading cost of each barge/transport/fast transport type. You'll find that LCI (Landing Craft Infantry) are best for loading infantry, for example. Some craft will only take infrantry (LCI) and some will take both at various costs with some better for armor, vehicles and tanks.

The main reason to use them though is the unloading time which is covered in the second table. You will find that barges unload faster than transports (AK/AP) by 50% or so. Another reason to use them is that if you are attacking a place with shore batteries, it is better to lose a cheap barge than an AK/AP.

The next thing you have to do is decide how to do an invasion mix. Basically, you want some escorts for your invasion fleet. You can use anything from cruisers on down. LCI(G) are basically another gunboat. The more escorts you have, the fewer shots your transports will take. I like to divide my invasion fleets into 3 parts. I do a landing force that has all the barges and escorts in it for the main invasion. My other fleet has the AGC (if one is available) and all the reserves/engineers/support troops. These won't land until the base is mine. The third fleet will have the supply transports (they don't take fire).

If you want to get a good mental picture of barges, you can think of it like this:

- If the name of the vessel has an 'S' in it, it means Ship (an ocean-going vessel). If the name has a 'C' in it, it means Craft (a smaller boat).

An LST was the main ocean-going vessel for the invasion fleet. It would put to see and be loaded with other land craft nested inside of each other. AKA and APA (in game, AKA/APA/AK/AP are all kind of merged together) took supplies/vehicles/armor/troops as well. When the invasion got to where it was going, they would drop the various landing craft over the side and the troops would climb down the ropes into them.



Feinder -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 6:01:51 PM)

Here's a related question. That Japanese invasion bonus of 200, thru/including March of 42. What is that actually doing? So does that mean that Japanese invasions starting in April 42, unload slower (and take more return fire)? If Japan is unloading 5000 load points with the bonus, how much longer will it take to unload those same 5000 points without the bonus? Have players actually seen a tangible effect (of it's loss), starting in April 42?



madflava13 -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 6:10:48 PM)

Actually LSTs didn't usually carry other craft inside... They were the big ships you've probably seen photos of beached with the bow doors open and tanks, trucks and troops streaming out.

LSDs were ships that carried amphibious tanks (like LVTs) or smaller landing boats as well as troops. These you'd see just offshore with a bunch of boats coming out of them.

AKAs and APAs were transports and freighters that carried a lot of landing craft in davits (kinda like lifeboats). They would also be just offshore unloading troops and supplies into these boats from cargo nets... Picture troops climbing down nets strung alongside.

LCIs were smaller versions of LSTs that usually had no overhead cover. Think of the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, with the troops exposed - only a bigger version of that. These guys would beach the ship and everybody piles off.

LCI(G) or LCI(R)s were the same thing, only instead of troops they had a big gun (sometimes up to 5inch, I believe) or rocket launchers to saturate the beach just before the troops hit.



Bradley7735 -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 6:14:30 PM)

Feinder, I believe the 200 bonus applies to disablements on unloading. For example, unloading with AK's give you no bonus. AP's give you 50 (I think), and LST's give you 100 (I think). Having an amphibious Force HQ gives you another 100 bonus (I think).

These bonuses have nothing to do with unload rates. It has to do with how much disorganization your troops get from going over the beach. (PP's help with this as well, hence the 200 bonus for Japan. They get organization bonus in the first months because it's rapid and you don't have 100 days to prep your unit for the next target).



tsimmonds -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 6:15:40 PM)

In my PBEM I've done one sizeable amphib op since the bonus expired. I didn't notice that unloading was slower, but what I did notice was that I got hit far worse by disablements than I had previously. I was fully prepped for the objectives, and opposition was light, but I got like 35% of a good brigade disabled landing against a couple of base forces.



Hornblower -> RE: Newbie Question... LCI(G)? (6/16/2005 8:13:18 PM)

Its april'43 for me. I spilt of the 1st marines and tossed one regiment on LST's and LCi's so that a complete unit would hit Tarawa in one wave. The rest of the division and the CB's i had on AP's. Turns out i didn't nead the rest after all. Apparently the 3 days of bombardment by my 12- yes 12 pre-ww2 BB's racked up some serious losses to the IJA. Reports showed upwards of 3,000 total. yes, i didn't loose any BB's at pearl harbor. Lucky die rolls i guess.



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