Sub Ops

Sub Ops (Full Version)

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Chris21wen -> Sub Ops (6/16/2005 6:49:22 PM)
I've been playong Scen 15 v1.5 ASW seems to be much more realistic in this patch. A/c are now attacking and hitting subs, mostly only damaging them. ASW TFs will attack subs but often fail to drop D/Cs (I assume they fail to find the sub). When they do, damage is not certain unless the attack is in shallow water. Allied ASW in much more lethal then Japanese. Now the bad news Auto Sub Ops is rubbish. I started the game with Auto sub ops turn on. My subs followed Japan TFs all over the map e.g short range boats (S-boats) based in Luganville went to to Taan or Pescadores. By the time they got there it was time to come back. Sub TFs were formed in ports without going anywhere. Setting Home ports was impossible as the AI changed it. Sometimes damaged Subs were reformed into TF. Ports with AS ships in them were often ignored. My subs did attack quite successfully (Dutch and British that is) but all suffered a lot of damage due to the AI setting patrol areas in Japan occupied ports or shallow water. I've now turned Auto sub off, setting each Sub TF to Computer control after a patrol hex has been set. This resulting in the folowing problems: Subs no longer follow TFs Subs make very few attacks probably because the don't follow TFs Subs don't move from the patrol hex. I've alway been under the impression that subs were set a patrol area (e.g In the game this could be represented by a hex grid) with limited ability to leave the area, and if they did they had to return. Why wasn't this used in the game.

bradfordkay -> RE: Sub Ops (6/16/2005 7:04:30 PM)
It seems to me that people have advocated leaving "Auto Sub Ops" off while sending subs to a location under Human Control, but once they arrive switching them to Computer Control. I cannot confirm this, as I keep forgetting to switch them, but I believe that I have heard doing so will allow your subs to start following TFs they have sighted, but otherwise they will not leave the patrol area until low on fuel or ammo. Strange occurance in my game last night: the sub USS Sailfish sighted a convoy and attacked, torps failed to detonate and the escort nailed her with three depth charges. Moments later a seperate ASW attack occured, the Sailfish "dove to deeper water" (or however the combat report says it) and the DDs in the ASW group attacked it with their guns, getting 11 hits and sending her to Davy Jones Locker. I'm not pissed, because the three depth charge hits she recieved after her own attack were probably enough to put her under, but it did seem wierd to see the "diving deeper" message just before the DDs guns started firing. My personal explanation is that she was surfaced trying to repair when the ASW group found her.

Speedysteve -> RE: Sub Ops (6/16/2005 7:06:48 PM)
Its a logical explanation for your incident Brad but whetehr the game had that in mind is another question [;)]

invernomuto -> RE: Sub Ops (6/16/2005 8:23:04 PM)
quote: It seems to me that people have advocated leaving "Auto Sub Ops" off while sending subs to a location under Human Control, but once they arrive switching them to Computer Control. I cannot confirm this, as I keep forgetting to switch them, but I believe that I have heard doing so will allow your subs to start following TFs they have sighted, but otherwise they will not leave the patrol area until low on fuel or ammo. Could someone confirm this please? I have my subs in human control and they do not follow enemy TFs, they stay in their patrol hex. If I set computer control they will hunt for enemy shipping? Bye

testarossa -> RE: Sub Ops (6/16/2005 8:44:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: invernomuto If I set computer control they will hunt for enemy shipping? Bye They will try to follow spotted TFs. I don't really think it's good, cause you have to move your sub after they were spotted by ASW sqs. and AI doens't do it. And all Jap players have the routes from DEI to Japan covered by ASW sq., with especially heavy coverage around Formosa.

madflava13 -> RE: Sub Ops (6/16/2005 8:56:18 PM)
What it comes down to, for good or for bad, is that to get the most out of your subs, you need to manually control them. A lot of people don't like that micromanagement, but to do otherwise is going to get a lot of weird results/excessive losses/etc. to your boats. Witp is a game of micromanagement. The AI just can't keep up, and nothing's going to change that unless we hook a Cray up to this puppy.

Freedom205 -> RE: Sub Ops (6/17/2005 5:01:09 AM)
agreed, micro-management is required, as is changinf almost all the sub commanders puting the best crews with the best commanders

Burzmali -> RE: Sub Ops (6/17/2005 5:31:44 AM)
If the activity involves the word "auto", it works poorly at best. Bask in the micromanagement, for it is the one true path of WITP.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Sub Ops (6/17/2005 5:38:04 AM)
Only way auto sub ops would have worked is if the player got to segment the Pacific into patrol zones and the subs were organized into admisistrative groups (squadrons/flottilas). Player could then assign a patrol zone to a squadron/flotilla, set a patrol frequency slider, and let the squadron subs rotate through the patrol zone.

doktorblood -> RE: Sub Ops (6/17/2005 8:51:53 AM)
Auto sub works ok in games agaisnt the AI. Order them to the desired operation area and turn them over to computer. Against a human, you better move all of your subs every turn if you want them to live very long.

Chris21wen -> RE: Sub Ops (6/17/2005 12:42:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Only way auto sub ops would have worked is if the player got to segment the Pacific into patrol zones and the subs were organized into admisistrative groups (squadrons/flottilas). Player could then assign a patrol zone to a squadron/flotilla, set a patrol frequency slider, and let the squadron subs rotate through the patrol zone. That would be the ideal way to do it.

Chris21wen -> RE: Sub Ops (6/17/2005 12:47:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay It seems to me that people have advocated leaving "Auto Sub Ops" off while sending subs to a location under Human Control, but once they arrive switching them to Computer Control. I cannot confirm this, as I keep forgetting to switch them, but I believe that I have heard doing so will allow your subs to start following TFs they have sighted, but otherwise they will not leave the patrol area until low on fuel or ammo. Currently I order by subs to a patrol area and turn them over to the computer immediately. Are you saying that I turn them over to the computer once they get to the patrol area? I'll try it anyway, pity you can't see a list of computer controlled TF though.

Chris21wen -> RE: Sub Ops (6/18/2005 9:55:42 AM)
I've just noticed another problem when auto sub is off. When the Sub TF is set to computer the Sub does not return to port when low on fuel.

Halsey -> RE: Sub Ops (6/18/2005 10:05:49 AM)
With 1.5 they will return when very low on fuel. They still need to be watched. I use the TF menu showing only the Sub TF's every 3 or 4 days. Just to be sure.[;)]

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