Counter Charge? (Full Version)

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africanus -> Counter Charge? (6/19/2005 12:50:49 AM)

I wasn't sure if I wanted to buy this game or not - a quick scan of Marathon's AAR played a large role in my ultimate purchase. Thanks Marathon. To ensure I didn't spoil the opening battles learning how to play the game I decided to download the TS AtG demo to get the hang of the system. With Thebes in the bag I started TS JC.

Minor victory on the first battle, I could/should have had a major victory but one of my units routed on turn XXIV. Certain that I could remedy the situation I restarted the campaign, selected two different legions (to test the other leaders), and was determined to get a major victory. My initial setup was slightly different (experience from the first battle), with the mounted units set to the flanks and rear. I was pleasantly surprised that the AI made some adjustments during its attack and the battle ended up being completely different from the first. Unfortunately, once again I had a unit rout on turn XXIII preventing Caesar from achieving that elusive major victory. The alternate legions performed roughly the same, although individual units do vary in effectiveness. Anything that adds to game replay/variety is a good feature - I would like to see more leader attributes (good and bad) added if possible.

Game thoughts/observations. Not sure why folks are complaining about the AI - the game has to be designed so that gamers new to the series aren't overly frustrated. Reviews of TA AtG often stated that some of the battles were too difficult or puzzles to be mastered, not something that would normally attract buyers. Some folks on this board complain about the strategy cards - I'm not sure why, they add great diversity and a personal strategic element to every battle and increase replayability. I wish there was a change facing card, and would warmly approve of any additional cards added to the system. I play every battle at least a couple times before moving on, and every one without exception (so far) has played out differently.

One of the only complaints I have concerns the Counter Charge button, what does it do? Is it a place holder for a future Napoleonic game? Also, it would be nice to have a bit more flexibility on the opening unit placement whenever possible (minor problem - I understand the need for balanced play). I would like to pick up TS AtG, but the limited number battles and their possible "puzzle" nature has me a bit worried. Too bad, I would love to join battle with the Indian elephants. Maybe an additional battle pack can be created and added to the TS AtG game, adding a few more battles would definitely convince me to purchase the game.

Finally, I look forward to another game in this series. Many folks suggest a change to the ACW or Napoleonic battles - but I hope the TS series remains rooted in the ancient era. There are so many games covering the two afore mentioned periods - and not one solid game detailing the Punic War period. Scipio, elephants, ships (a great minature battle game in its own right), Carthage, etc...; a great campaign that could be played from both sides would be fantastic. (A complete battle 100+ units per side covering the entire siege at Alesia wouldn't be half bad either.)



e_barkmann -> RE: Counter Charge? (6/19/2005 3:15:18 AM)

I like the suggestion for a change facing card - I can't understand why it would take a unit an entire turn to turn 90 degrees or more, where a minor facing change can be built into a movement turn with little or no penalty. On the facing/movement subject, I'd also like to see a 'retire' option, where a unit can move back one square and be allowed to maintain original facing.

Cheers Chris



Deride -> RE: Counter Charge? (6/20/2005 4:31:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: africanus
One of the only complaints I have concerns the Counter Charge button, what does it do?


Counter charge is fairly similar to Defend, but it has a bit of a twist.

Again, each turn, you have 3 sub-phase commands that you are giving. In the case of Defend, your unit will issue a defend order in each of the command, reaction and reserve phase. A defend will give you a bonus when your opponent attakcs so that he should do less damage.

In the case of Counter Charge, your unit will actually issue a Charge command for the first sub-phase where it is attacked. This gives you a bonus to attack and inflict more damage on an attacking unit. All phases after you charge (i.e., reaction or reserve), your unit will revert back to a defend.

So, why would I use counter charge? There are basically 2 reaons:

1) When you are defending something and your opponent is attacking with offensive units such as horse or chariot. Since killing a horse unit is easier than an infantry unit, a counter charge is a good way to get your opponent's units off the board.

2) Charge itself can only be used in the forward direction (except during reserve where you can get a special diagonal charge order.) So, if you want to charge a unit, you can use counter charge assuming that they are going to attack you. If you win this sub-phase engagement, you might also get a push back which gives you the opportunty to change face during the next portions of the turn.


So, counter charge is a strategic choice that you can make during the game. In Caesar, it works great if you are using legions to defend an area since an offsensive bonus for them can utterly destroy the incoming enemy.

Deride



koiosworks -> RE: Counter Charge? (6/20/2005 4:33:21 PM)


quote:

One of the only complaints I have concerns the Counter Charge button, what does it do?


Hi, thanks for the feedback. The counter charge is basically a defend order for the unit but if the unit is attacked it will get 'charge' bonuses on the first round of defensive combat instead of 'defend' bonuses (so for instance, cavalry are good at counter charge). Since JS has much less emphasis on cavalry and spearmen, counter charge is not as useful a command as it was in Alexander where the companion cavalry played such a major role.

Oh, and go get Alexander, I promise that if you like JS you will like Alexander. There are 8 battles to enjoy and you get get one choice for AI - Hard [:D]



africanus -> RE: Counter Charge? (6/20/2005 6:37:14 PM)

Thank you for the reply. Very interesting, counter charge allowing a possible facing change and inflicting greater damage during defense - strategy advice also appreciated.

I can see where this may be valuable indeed in a more unit varied (less spearmen) environment like TS AtG. Still considering TS AtG, any thoughts on adding a few extra battles?

Thanks



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