Am I the only one?

Am I the only one? (Full Version)

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Guderon -> Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 12:33:18 AM)
Okay, this is hard to admit, but I'm curious if I'm the only one who's in this situation. I bought WitP the day it came out after eagerly anticipating it for a LONG time. But guess what? I haven't actually played it yet.[8\|] I eagerly read other people's AARs every day and thoroughly enjoy them. I've attempted to start a game many times, but am simply overwhelmed by it every time. And so you don't think I'm a novice wargamer, I'm pushing 50 [:(] and have been an avid wargamer for about 35 years. I've been playing computer wargames for about as long as there have been computers to play them on and played (and loved) PacWar many, many times. The point is, I'm not easily overwhelmed by any wargame, board or computer, yet this one seems to have my number. Any suggestions on how to get a handle on this monster?

Oliver Heindorf -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 12:41:17 AM)
start with small scenarios vs the AI on historic difficult. watch the game commences your moves and look the combat replay. learn of your errors and try it again to see the changes. make a plan of general strategy ( what to conquer first etc. ) make a check list ( check bases, units TF's enemy sightings etc. ) once you got an idea of the points above, the game can be handled easily.

treespider -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 12:42:08 AM)
Just do it!

Captain Ed -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 12:47:16 AM)
Your pushing 50 I`m pulling 50. I too have been playing Computer wargames longer than I can remember. This is a monster of a game. I assume you have not tried it PBEM yet. It is the best way to get into it because it gives you that extra incentive to stay with it however I would let your opponent know your new to it, I think most guy`s will understand and maybe even allow you the odd redo or NOT[:D]. Playing against the AI just has no feel to it, and thus no desire to go further than a few turn`s.[:'(]

Bradley7735 -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 12:47:47 AM)
Try the coral sea scenario. It's a small one (only 14 turns). I would also reccomend just jumping into the main scenario. It will take you as much as 12 hours to do the first turn, but you can take a weekend to do it. After the 1st turn, they usually don't take more than 30 mins.

Mike Solli -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 12:48:56 AM)
I remember getting it when it first came out and (of course) started the campaign game as the Japanese player against the AI. I was stunned. There was so much to consider. I must have played the opening week a dozen times. Each time I added one or two components. By doing that, I got to a point where I knew where most of the ships, daitai and ground units were. I was deployed at the time and didn't have access to the forums, which made things pretty tough at times. I had no one to talk to or ask questions of. When I came home I spent a lot of time reading the forum and asking questions. Just jump into it and make mistakes. When you get comfortable then jump into a PBEM game. That'll screw you up. If you think the AI does weird things.... Just plug away and ask lots of questions here on the forum. There are plenty of people who will help you get through the tough parts. You'll usually get 2-3 answers for each question. You can pick one or maybe they'll create some inspiration on your part. Mike

Zecke -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 12:56:57 AM)
IF you have played UNCOMON VALOUR, play the same scenario IN WITP you will see that WITP is another dimension. Go for it

Terminus -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 1:09:14 AM)
The Guadalcanal scenario is great for learning the ins and outs of this game. It's what I used, and it worked well for me. You certainly needn't be scared of just jumping in.

Bill Durrant -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 1:14:11 AM)
I would recommend a PBEM game - even a small scenario. I was much the same to start with but with PBEM I learnt by getting my butt kicked. Now I know how my opponents are kicking my butt - still need to learn how to jump out of the way though[:(]

bradfordkay -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 1:18:47 AM)
I think that you're better off starting against the AI. Make multiple saves (one or two weeks worth of gameplay) so that you can back up and try something new when plans go awry. After all, in your first game you are trying to learn how the system works. Having your head handed to you on a platter by a PBEM opponent who has learned all the tricks is a very slow way of learning the game, having to wait for turns to arrive and all that...

MarcA -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 1:54:55 AM)
I had a similar problem when I first started. I was thrilled by the idea of playing but every time I tried to start I just got too overpowered with all the detail. I ended up just toying with the game for two months before I bit the bullet But I would agree with treespider, you just have to start. For my $0.02 I would suggest allies, scenario 2 against AI. The reasons being Allies are simpler than Japs in this scenario It's your first game, you are at the start of a steep learning curve and playing the AI you don't look like a complete twonk everytime you make a school boy error Even though it may look like a lot of things to consider most of the commands are restricted so the movement of LCU's is very limited, especially to begin with when PP's are low. This keeps it surprisingly simple and do-able. Finally, there is a certain elegant symmetry about starting at the beginning So you don't become overwhelmed tackle it by dividing it up into different areas, Philipines, Burma, Malaya, Borneo, Sumatra, etc and just conecntrate on one at a time. Once you start you will quickly get a handle on the whole theatre and within a few turns will be organising coordinated defenses. I guarantee you'll be hooked the first time you see 4 torpedoes slam into the side of one of his carriers

Nomad -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 3:32:15 AM)
I'm pushing 60 and not having any problems. Just do it. I like starting a senario 15, and just do a section at a time. Save there and either do another section or leave it for another day. One nice thing is to play as Allies and then there is not really that much to do. If you don't do something the first day it usually is not that important.

Mike Scholl -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 3:43:47 AM)
NOMAD has is nailed. Start any of the early war scenarios as the Allies---heck, even the Big One as the Allies. A LOT of what's in the game you have to learn by DOING..., and as the Allies were totally suprised at the start, forgetting something is almost historic. Another thing to try is let the computer run the show in some areas (not logistics) while you concentrait on a few yourself. Maybe start by letting it run everytyhing but the eastern pacific areas and concentrait on how to get supply forward and deploy your forces. Then re-start giving yourself more responsibility and you master various aspects. Save the Japanese for last. Tackeling their first turn in a big scenario is a 90 degree learning curve because what you don't get right on turn one generally bites you in the butt by turn three---and you have production to fight with.

Guderon -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 8:09:03 PM)
Thanks for the input guys. I guess I really knew all that stuff already, (getting started on PacWar years ago was the same way) but I wanted a little extra impetus to get going with this game. Thanks again for your suggestions and time.

Banquet -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 8:52:00 PM)
I've also had problems making a start with WitP. I tend to spend a week playing one game, then play another for a week, switch back, etc. That approach doesn't work well with WitP because you just forget what you were doing. In smaller wargames with one obvious goal it's not such a problem, but in WitP there are probably dozens of goals you're working towards and each one involves many elements that just aren't obvious when looking at the map after a week since you last played. It does get easier as you get into it though. The first turn is the worst. Soon you'll just know what everything is, in a zen like trance you'll be moving pieces around and feeling like the true commander of all you survey! Something like that anyway [:)] I agree that you learn best by just doing it.. and with the help of this great forum. For me playing a smaller scenario was never an option because WitP just 'is' the full war. But I never had a problem playing the full war. It puts you in at the deep end, but that's one of the best ways to learn. I still regard myself, after all this time, as playing the game to learn the system. My first 'real' game is sometime off in the future (approx 2020 probably [:D] ) Definitely give it a go though. It really draws you in.

Rob322 -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 10:33:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl NOMAD has is nailed. Start any of the early war scenarios as the Allies---heck, even the Big One as the Allies. A LOT of what's in the game you have to learn by DOING..., and as the Allies were totally suprised at the start, forgetting something is almost historic. Another thing to try is let the computer run the show in some areas (not logistics) while you concentrait on a few yourself. Maybe start by letting it run everytyhing but the eastern pacific areas and concentrait on how to get supply forward and deploy your forces. Then re-start giving yourself more responsibility and you master various aspects. Save the Japanese for last. Tackeling their first turn in a big scenario is a 90 degree learning curve because what you don't get right on turn one generally bites you in the butt by turn three---and you have production to fight with. Bingo, it's crazy but just dive into the big campaign as the Allies. Accept you'll get hammered early on. Watch and learn. If you make mistake it's ok. The Allies have a hard time screwing up SO badly that they can't come back from it. By the time you have all those shiny new Essex Class CV's running about you'll have learned how to employ them.

Darksky -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 10:38:17 PM)
quote: I assume you have not tried it PBEM yet. It is the best way to get into it because it gives you that extra incentive to stay with it. I quote totally. If you did not played at UV then start a small scenario against AI, just to familiarize with interface and game engine. For the grand campaign go directly for a pbem

Mike Solli -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 10:40:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob322 Bingo, it's crazy but just dive into the big campaign as the Allies. Accept you'll get hammered early on. Watch and learn. If you make mistake it's ok. The Allies have a hard time screwing up SO badly that they can't come back from it. By the time you have all those shiny new Essex Class CV's running about you'll have learned how to employ them. Allies?[X(] Why would anyone want to play them? I just don't understand it. [:D]

crsutton -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 10:42:40 PM)
Don't feel bad. I basically decided that the large campaign is just too much for me right now. I just don't have the time or drive to put that much effort into a game. I have pretty much resolved to stick to the smaller scenarios. The South Pacific senairo that assums that Midway did not happen is excellent and easy to play. I highly recommend it. Still the game is great. My only real complaint is that there really is a lack of small to medium sized scenarios. I think that the community will flesh this out over time.

Nikademus -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/21/2005 10:52:13 PM)
try the Manchurian campaign. (as Soviets) its alot of fun. [:D]

TommyG -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 2:22:00 AM)
I recommend that you bite the bullet, take a pull on your canteen and play scn 15 as the allies against the AI. You won't play the whole game, after a few months you'll be looking for human opponents. The important thing to remember is that after the first monster turn (figure all day) it gets easier. Once you have loaded a ship and weighed anchor, there isn't much to do. For the first turn, work PH first then the whole map, right to left. One more thing, say goodbye to all other diversions in your life and maybe a few responsibilities.

madflava13 -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 2:37:20 AM)
Start the main campaign as the Allies. Go to the Phillipines and decide what to do with the ships in the Phillipines only. Give them orders. If you feel you're up to more, go to Australia and do the same. Keep going one area at a time until you get overwhelmed again. Save and exit the game. Next time you feel up to playing more, go at it until eventually you've gotten all the orders for everything done for that first turn. I know that seems extreme, but it should not take more than a few hours total. For the Allies, you can safely spend less than 2 hours and not mess up that much. Just take it in pieces. And remember, once you get that first turn done, it's MUCH easier. My average turn is only about 15 minutes, if that, as the Allies. Maybe more if I have some big op planned, but usually about 15 minutes. It's just getting everything in motion that takes awhile. I know it looks intense, but remember, the save and exit buttons can be your friend!

Point Luck -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 2:59:06 AM)
No Not really, same age, same gaming experience and I never did get the total hang of PacWar. I Did play the hell out of UV, so I jumped right in. Recommend you play the allies scen 15, Perferably PBEM. from the very begining of the game start by saving all your units you can (retreating or what I like to call a strategic withdrawal) and work your logistics, stay out of the way IJN, duck and weave as much as you can. By the time the battle of Midway took place if you're lucky you can start to think about turning the tide. You'll also have a pretty good idea how move around the game.

jwilkerson -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 3:16:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guderon Okay, this is hard to admit, but I'm curious if I'm the only one who's in this situation. I bought WitP the day it came out after eagerly anticipating it for a LONG time. But guess what? I haven't actually played it yet.[8\|] I eagerly read other people's AARs every day and thoroughly enjoy them. I've attempted to start a game many times, but am simply overwhelmed by it every time. And so you don't think I'm a novice wargamer, I'm pushing 50 [:(] and have been an avid wargamer for about 35 years. I've been playing computer wargames for about as long as there have been computers to play them on and played (and loved) PacWar many, many times. The point is, I'm not easily overwhelmed by any wargame, board or computer, yet this one seems to have my number. Any suggestions on how to get a handle on this monster? I think I agree with Treespider and TommyG ... the only way to learn the campaign game .. is to play it ... I was expected to play the Japanese from day one ... and it isn't easy when you have no clue how the production / resource system works or how to monitor it ... or where the AI is going to move your stuff ... but you just dive in ... and after a while you figure it out !!! It will seem overwhelming until you play it ( Sc15 ) for a while ... then it will not - at least at the "mechanics" level.

Mike Solli -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 3:27:36 AM)
Play the Japanese. (This is your conscience speaking.)[:'(]

jwilkerson -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 3:31:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Solli Play the Japanese. (This is your conscience speaking.)[:'(] Oh I do ... 750+ PBEM campaign game turns of them to date .... so far only 50 as the Allies ...

Crimguy -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 4:59:47 AM)
I did the same thing as you. I've never been daunted by any wargame, yet both UV and WitP left me clueless. After owning the game for about 7 months, I finally did the Coral Sea scen. Learned a lot from it. Then dove into the full WWII scenario. I asked a barrage of questions here on the forum, and finally after a month of game time (mid-late January, 1942) I felt I had a grasp of it. When playing, make sure you give yourself enough turns to actually see the fruits of your labors. Additionally, I turned the delays down to the minimum on the full scenario to keep me from getting bored. I relied totally on the Combat Summaries, and for basic play it helped a lot. I eventually turned the combat animations back on because I wanted to actually see what was going on. It's a staggering game, but you'll get the swing of it.

riley555a -> RE: Am I the only one? (6/22/2005 5:29:38 AM)
I know it seems hopeless. You should see some of the foolish posts I made when I was new. Go through the tutorial. I recommend reading the manual but in my experience it isn't necessary to read every last bit of it through in detail. What I did when i was new, I played a small scenario and referred to the manual whenever I needed it. Start with a small scenario like 004, everything is set up for you on that scenario. Go through it slowly, don't rush and panick, you'll only slow down your learning if you rush. Whenever you're playing make sure to have a quick reference to the list of ship, ground and air types, that really helps.

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