Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain

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JosephL -> Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 12:18:19 AM)
I'll do this in my quick story method... Playing as Spain in Normal difficulty. Title: Spain, Eternally Second The Early Years: Ah, welcome to spain... city of light, city of love... no wait, that's Paris... my bloody allies who seem hell bent on world conquest. It looked like a good idea on paper! Spain begins with a crap army, crappy city developments, crappy technology, but great trading ability. Also to our advantage is the fact nobody really WANTS to go to spain, having no tactical signifiance whatsoever. I begin with a no-brainer opening move: Take Gibralter (Worth 3 glory a turn!). Along with the French Fleet, our spanish ships are able to drive Admiral Nelson into the Mediterainian. Strangely enough this would come back to haunt me later, as he would be there for the rest of the game. I now lay siege to Gibralter, blockading the port, with my entire army. Gibralter falls a while later. In addition to the collapse of Gibralter, France has now moved and is sacking Austria. My army turns it's attention to Portugal, which is worth 1 glory a turn, and will be very useful in building more units. WIth much tact and grace I maange to take Portugal without damaging the Portugeese army too much. This means I get to take control of Portugal's army as well, and it is pretty much unharmed. Portgual becomes my Protectorate. Hey, im doing pretty well! By the time I am finished with Portugal Austria has surrendered. I am well into second place, France leading since they were battling so much while I did little but lay siege. The Kingdom of Naples has levied its first army... things are looking up. The Middle Years: AKA: Spain Screws Up. With my Austrian Surrender I had a plan: Use my forced surrender to take control of 3 major Austria armies (total manpower 65,000) and march on Russia while the French try to drive them off of their own land. What I didn't realize was you have to violate neutrality to MOVE the army you borrow. I found this out later but not only did I now have to support 65,000 extra troops but I cant use them. Russia is kind enough to attempt to assault my army multiple times and eventually destroys it. A side effect is my borrowing of Austria's army just decimated it along with about 80,000 russians. However, during this time my economy comes to a crashing halt. I'm not sure if it was the army I was trying to control or what, but I am now faced with zero income. Without money production in spain halts for many years. France is on the verge of collapse and now Turkey has entered the war against us as well. The Late Years: France is now in danger and I don't want to be a part of it. I cancel our alliance and form a simple crossing treaty. My borrowed army has now been destroyed by endless waves of russians. Naples has now levied two full armies and I now have some money. I move on the Papacy and take it. No sooner do I do so than the Russian and Turkish armies (numbering larger than the Grand Army) move into Italy. I am now in deep trouble, considering I control another 40,000 POWs from Russia, which I retreat to sicily. Since England controls the Mediterainian with Nelson's fleet I am forced into a dillema: France is on the verge of collapse. This is good. They have 800 glory points (game ends at 1000) and I am well into second (650 glory). Third place has only 400. The Spanish Army has regrouped now, having had some months of prosperity. It now consists of 4 fully stocked armies, including a Cavalry-Only army with +50% charge power. My Cavalry will prove to be the hinge for victory, as I will use it like a battering ram to break my opponents into multiple pieces. So the problem is this. If I do not send my armies across france to rescue Italy I will lose a very valuable position that provides me a lot of glory points every turn (and units every year). If I send my army across to Italy I will be forced to smash through a large number of enemy armies. I am not worred about losing, my force is now much stronger than the enemy armies that are in the way. However, this means the enemy will be forced to divert their attention away from france. If I give france the time to recover they may be able to defend Paris long enough to win the game. I make my decision: I will save Italy. My armies move swiftly across south france. Total number of over 250,000 plus an additiona 60,000 men in Italy I carve a path through over 200,000 enemy units. Russia, England, and Turkey didn't see it coming and they never mustered more than 80,000 units against my 250,000 in a single battle. My forces Arrive in Naples and lay siege to it. With Naples under my thumb Italy is now safe, barring a sea invasion. However, my worst fears are realized when France counter attacks the combined forces of Austria and Russia (I having wiped out Turkey and Britain from southern europe). France now has 900 victory points and I still trail by 100. Austria surrenders after losing its army. France wins the game: Final score France 1010 Spain 850. I was in second place since the onset of the game and stayed there. I could never muster enough glory points to topple france. My objective to betray france never got realized. Since I was at war with every country except france, I feared that defeating france would only cause open season on spanish hunting, as all 6 other nations converged on their only enemy, Spain. This forced me to hope the allies could defeat France on their own, but alas, France retreated from Prussia and never attacked Russia: Concentrating on hanging on to whatever they could. I think eventually the allies would have defeated france. on the final turn Britain had taken Normandy and Britany and the provinces on the west front of Austria all belonged to Russia. With me hanging on to Italy for dear life I never had the opportunity to assault Ireland, Russia, or Constantinople. Prussia would have been my next objective. Side note to anyone who wants to try Spain: The Papacy is a wonderful objective to capture. I would have done it sooner had I known. The huge culture score of the papacy not only boosts national morale but also supplies at least 1, if not 2, glory every turn. Plus with a little work you can have the Papacy produce armies, meaning you can organize the armies of Naples into real fighting units. Also efficient was my selection to upgrade Cavalry Charge. That plus your commander who gets +30% cavalry turns the Spanish horsemen into a force more dangerous than any other on the field. I had multiple charges inflinct between 3 and 5,000 casualties (half of an entire division). But so it ends: Spain... hard to play as but I enjoy the challenges. -Joe

bluemonday -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 12:23:04 AM)
Nice AAR Joe - just out of curiosity, what years are we talking about, here, timetable-wise? Middle years is roughly what period? Late years is when?

Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 1:22:11 AM)
Yes a nice AAR. One question, how long did your game take in real time?

Erik Rutins -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 3:51:02 AM)
Congratulations Joe, I see you've come a long way since Sweden... [;)]

JosephL -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 4:41:16 AM)
Hey guys: Time wise: I wasn't really keeping track but I would say there's about 2 years or so in each "beginning, middle, and end." Hour wise this game took me two days to play through, total by hours probably 9-10 (most of which was today). I had a weird game earlier in which France won in less than 30 minutes... that was a weird fluke though. Eric: The Swedes will rise again! So far my strategy to play as Sweden is less than perfect: Opening move should be to take Denmark and declare it your own... this about doubles the power of Sweden... so its still roughly 1/4th the size of everyone else. After the Denmark blitz I sorta ran out of ideas. Sweden isn't strong enough to smash through France. With France wandering around Prussia and Austria I don't dare attack Prussia (The French army would gladly wipe me out if I came down from Denmark...). I don't think breaking the alliance and attacking Russia is too swift and I have no way to get to Turkey. Once Denmark falls Sweden is kinda trapped. My only other idea is to take Hanover from the French after the French conquer it from Britain... Hurhumph... Being Sweden is hard work :( -Joe

Naomi -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 4:45:24 AM)
I am wondering what Britain was actually doing in face of Spanish consistent siding with France and gradual expansion into Italy. AI seemed not good enough (no offence :p) to launch British red suits onto Iberian Peninsula, leaving a couple of corps there so Spain could never manoeuvre just as freely and march her full army eastward. Btw, what was Britain's glory standing? (^,^)

JosephL -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 8:59:22 PM)
Britain was crushed by France earlier in the game when they attempted a full scale invasion of Normandy. This was the time period in which France was in great peril and pulled the grande armee out of Prussia to save Paris. They arrived in time and decimated the British Army. Britain never fully recovered. They had no hope of landing troops in the Iberian Peninsula. They eventually rebuit their forces but by the time they had taken normandy and brittany France had won. Had they selected, instead, to invade Spain I would have demolished them and marched anyway. Plus moving their navy out of the channel would have been an opportunity for France to get the french fleet out of Normandy and into the British merchant lanes. Britain played well, but you will find Britain is an all of nothing ball game. If you can take Paris you will have a huge lead on everyone, but since Hanover is the only British port on the mainland if you fail you can expect to lose your entire invasion force (even if you try to flee, France will hunt you down and destroy you). Once Britain fails its attack you can basically write them off for a long time, unless you want to do anything in the ocean, in which case they had better be on your side :). The final standings, if I recall: France 1010, Spain 850, Turkey 600. I'm currently playing a Prussian game... its very interesting. -Joe

wayne19563 -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/26/2005 11:53:45 PM)
What? No Screen shots?

YohanTM2 -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 1:33:15 AM)
I hope that Britian does not HAVE to take Paris to have a shot at winning the game.

Forward_March -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 4:04:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yohan I hope that Britian does not HAVE to take Paris to have a shot at winning the game. Heh! That would be poetic justice. Make the little shopkeepers do something besides sitting on their backsides counting shillings and pence...and otherwise being a nuisance.

JosephL -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 6:25:46 AM)
I suppose as Britain you could attack Spain and wait for Russia to take Paris. One way or another the main scenario begins with Britain at war with Spain and France, and that war has to end. Odds are France isn't gonna be to sweet on a cease fire so you either have to stab the beast in the heart and take Paris or wait for someone else to take paris or crush the french army (good luck). Taking paris doesn't win you the game, it just gives you a big step in the right direction. WIth the fall of France britain can take two very valuable provinces worth like 6 glory a turn. Prussia, for instance, would have to conquer about 5 provinces to get 6 glory a turn. Anyway, there you have it. I didn't take any screenshots... wasn't really thinking about it :) -Joe

Naomi -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 10:37:19 AM)
I still have no Britain's glory standing. Is hers even behind Turkey's 600 points? As mentioned, Britain had to run a great risk (of having her invasion force decimated at the hands of France) to achieve something around the Low Countries, why didnt she turn to another big glory earner, striking at the latter w/ a concentrated force or at least keeping harassing the latter w/ her naval-aided flexibility of moving armies while joining forces w/ her german allies to meet France? I read Joseph's description of his campaign in the role of Prussia. I hv an impression of AI-controlled powers who are fixated on their line of thinking and reluctant to change their course of actions even when they have turned out to be not so worthwhile (Russia's ten failed attempts to defeat Prussia in the detail). Moreover, I was led to feel that to win by playing France is a highly safe bet, given that the other major powers (especially while under human control) never find it in their interest (or as a pressing necessity) to put going against France at the top of agenda but instead searching for easier prey at most of the time. [:'(]

Erik Rutins -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 3:52:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Naomi Moreover, I was led to feel that to win by playing France is a highly safe bet, given that the other major powers (especially while under human control) never find it in their interest (or as a pressing necessity) to put going against France at the top of agenda but instead searching for easier prey at most of the time. We should probably as Joe at what difficulty level he is playing, as the other powers don't coordinate as much against the leader on the easier difficulty levels.

JosephL -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 5:38:42 PM)
I was playing on Normal mode in both games. With regard to Russia's suicide assault on Prussia... I'm confused... Russia (played by the AI) won! The glory you get from forcing your enemy's surrender, along with the long-term gains, are worth much more than the glory defeating the russians was giving me (like a whopping 1-3 per battle vs. like 100 glory for my surrender plus -50 or whatever for me). I think Russia would have surrendered had I been able to actually decimate their army... but that wasn't really an option, Russia is way more powerful than Prussia in the start of the game. The more important issue is declaring war is VERY IMPORTANT. If Russia and Prussia were at war and Russia decided not to pursue it and instead concentrate on France or a small target, then Prussia would begin taking Russian provinces without any resistance. This would damage their glory and their morale. You also can't just surrender lightly, as it damages your glory and boosts your opponent's glory and power. Even a limited surrender isn't a great solution (though if you really had to change focus it is better than surrendering). A cease fire is possible but in my mind only if you are causing your enemy enough harm that they want you to go away AND believe they have no hope of causing your surrender. I don't really remember Britain's glory score. I think they were in fourth just behind Turkey. I would probably suspect well into the 500s. Edit: Oh yeah, and I think France is certainly the "easiest" to win at. I've never actually played as France... but they don't always win. My game as Prussia had France in a very bad position. I probably could have taken out France as well, had I not run into trouble with Turkey. Basically: If you are a small power you gotta leave the fighting mostly up to the big boys. Sweden can't take on france alone, neither can Prussia (until much later), nor Austria. Turkey may be able to by late game either. France, Russia, Britain. They are the most dangerous (mostly Russia and France). Russia and France can muster huge numbers of troops. Britain's much smaller, but they are very well trained, which makes them a force to be noticed. Plus their homeland is very safe as long as they control the ocean. So if my AARPs are focusing on "Not attacking France or Russia" it is because I am not playing a power who has the opportunity to attack those enemies. Playing as Prussia is challenging enough to be at war with the powers you can topple (Sweden, Austria, Turkey) while NOT being at war with the ones who could defeat you (Britain, France, Russia) and then transforming your victories and improving your armies until you CAN tackle one of them (the end of my game came when France assaulted me, but by then it was too late, I was too strong for them). Keep in mind this is normal mode and I am good at strategy games but by no means the skill level of half the people who post here :) -Joe -Joe

sol_invictus -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 6:08:30 PM)
Well this all sounds about right. The main threats are the French and the Russians, with Britain stalking around the periphery picking its opportunities. Prussia, Austria, Spain, Sweden, and Turkey should have to tailor their strategy to the tune of the Big Boys. The Npoleonic Wars, as most people on this forum know, weren't just and endless struggle between France and everyone else. During this time, most of the major powers were jockeying for position and looking for any opportunity to stab their neighbors in the back, which worked to Napoleon's advantage for some time. I wonder how often/likely the British AI takes it upon itself to form a coalition against France, or even Russia, if one of them grabs for the brass ring.

Jordan -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/27/2005 7:03:13 PM)
quote: Well this all sounds about right. The main threats are the French and the Russians, with Britain stalking around the periphery picking its opportunities. Prussia, Austria, Spain, Sweden, and Turkey should have to tailor their strategy to the tune of the Big Boys. The Npoleonic Wars, as most people on this forum know, weren't just and endless struggle between France and everyone else. During this time, most of the major powers were jockeying for position and looking for any opportunity to stab their neighbors in the back, which worked to Napoleon's advantage for some time. Agree, wholeheartedly. quote: I wonder how often/likely the British AI takes it upon itself to form a coalition against France, or even Russia, if one of them grabs for the brass ring. I've noticed that certain objectives, once taken, accrue glory points per turn. Is the converse true? If, for example, Austria were to take a rich province such as Silesia (which they lost to Prussia in the War of Austrian Succession in the 1740's), Austria might accrue glory points per turn. Would Prussia lose glory points per turn? If a country were to lose gp's in addtion to gaining gps then that would be a way to refine the AI's objectives and replicate the idea that lingering national interests prevented the allies from joining forces right away and were a source of the distrust among them.

Naomi -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/28/2005 2:59:30 AM)
It's true that continental major powers, French arch-rivals, had spheres of conflict and territorial disputes underlying their mutual hatred that had passed across generations. That fact compromised their natural tendencies of uniting to meet French (or sometimes British) threats. That's why it's important for the game itself to be able to incorporate such "feud" considerations, which, to put forward an example, can propel Prussia, Austria, and Russia to argue between themselves over ex-Poland territories (of which Russia aimed to gain more following Freddy II's demise). If Poland (or at least a semblance of which) could be revived and confer benefits on one of the powers in question that possessed enough provinces for such a revival, international feud would have a greater role to play in the game. Secondly, I am wondering why France was still in a jeopardised position given Joseph's Prussia went against Russia in one of his Prussia plays. Historic France was holding an upper hand (at least before Nappy went so mad as to try and topple Spain and Russia) even if the continental trios, along with Britain, were grossly unanimous in opposing France (there were no significant tussles between themselves). That led me to be interested in a test play of France by your crew. [:'(]

Erik Rutins -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/28/2005 3:21:30 AM)
Naomi, quote: ORIGINAL: Naomi [:'(] As a side note, may I ask why you are sticking out your tongue all the time? [;)]

Naomi -> RE: Crown of Glory AA Report: Spain (6/28/2005 3:53:00 AM)
coz its lovely. :p

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