Whats with all the difficulty levels? (Full Version)

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GBS -> Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/4/2005 5:02:53 PM)

There must be twelve. Manual does not explain.
Another question. In my last game I was at pease with Austria as they had surrendered to me. I wanted Flanders which was one of their protectorates but could not figure how to take it. Can a protectorate be taken from another nation?



Franz von G -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/4/2005 5:15:32 PM)

i think that you have to free it, and then take it (diplomatically or with guns [;)]); you can't choose protectorate's provinces because they don't really belong to the surrendering nation, i think..



the_GOD_among_men -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/4/2005 5:34:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Franz von G

i think that you have to free it, and then take it (diplomatically or with guns [;)]); you can't choose protectorate's provinces because they don't really belong to the surrendering nation, i think..


Thats stupid. I mean very often nations traded protectorates and territories of their protectorates. This needs to be patched.



sol_invictus -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/4/2005 6:19:41 PM)

In the context of the game, a Protectorate is still a sovereign Country, not a vassal. You need to break that Protectorate status through conquest of the Protectorate. The defeated Nation does not have the right nor the authority to simply hand over their independent and sovereign Protectorate; the protected Country would obviously have something to say about it. Think of the relationship as being a very solid defense treaty. IF, a Nation was able to hand off a Protected Country in a peace deal, it should only cancel the Protectorate agreement but it would still be incumbent upon the victor in the preceeding war to have to conquer the newly unprotected Country in order to take political control. That's my thinking on how the mechanics of the game are meant to be interpreted.



Naomi -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/4/2005 10:55:56 PM)

Did you guys ever receive a different province from the one you had asked for from a surrendering nation? Did you guys ever receive a reparation instead of a province you had asked to be ceded? I proposed a terms-of-surrender treaty spending nearly all of the victory points I had gained, but got an unwanted ceded province and a tiny amount of reparation even "w/o any counter proposal".



kerguelen -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/4/2005 11:14:19 PM)

quote:

In the context of the game, a Protectorate is still a sovereign Country, not a vassal. You need to break that Protectorate status through conquest of the Protectorate. The defeated Nation does not have the right nor the authority to simply hand over their independent and sovereign Protectorate; the protected Country would obviously have something to say about it. Think of the relationship as being a very solid defense treaty. IF, a Nation was able to hand off a Protected Country in a peace deal, it should only cancel the Protectorate agreement but it would still be incumbent upon the victor in the preceeding war to have to conquer the newly unprotected Country in order to take political control. That's my thinking on how the mechanics of the game are meant to be interpreted.


I think the setup of the different scenarios concerning provinces hast to be modified anyway. E.g. Flanders should nt be treated as a protectorate but as country conquered by Austria, the same with Milan. (Tuscany should stay a protectrate). Westphalia was not a Austrian protectorate but Prussia had several tiny holdings in the Area of Berg, Kleve and Westphalia. (which were significantly enlarged 1815).
I think that the target files should be modified as well. Austria now like to get Provence (control: 3), but they don't care if Tyrol is in french Hands (enemy control: 0). In one of my Games France occupied Tyrol in one peace treaty and when Austria won the next time they didn' take it back but took Provence. (Tyrol went to Russia a few month later(!). Britain want to control several provinces of northern France (and that's what they do in the end). I understand that targets are usefu to keep nations at war, but the current target-files result in a European map which resembles the late Middel-ages/Renaissance, but not a period during which the map of Europe was cleanded up. Maybe the target option of keeping a country 'neutral' should be used more often and efficiently (especially by Britain, they didn' ant to annex continental provinces, but keep continental powers busy with themselves).

(sorry, maybe this should go into a thread of its own, but I can't start a new one, only fast-reply)



Ralegh -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/5/2005 2:26:34 AM)

quote:

proposed a terms-of-surrender treaty spending nearly all of the victory points I had gained, but got an unwanted ceded province and a tiny amount of reparation


It is possible to not get a province you demanded in a surrender treaty: if a province you asked for was also requested by another power - they got it and you missed out. Your ex-enemy should have lost a lot of glory for breaching their treaty with you, but you are out of luck.

I have never received a different province, though - perhaps you misclicked?

The reparations are added automatically to spend any remaining VPs.



kerguelen -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/5/2005 3:01:04 AM)

No, I was talking about what the AI did (I was peaceful Prussia). Was really funny to watch Austria taking Provence and letting the French keep Tyrol (Maybe they got tired of skiing and hiking and prefered cottage life in southern France), and afterwards Russia taking Tyrol from France!



kerguelen -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/5/2005 3:04:27 AM)

Forget to mention: Maybe reparations should be first choice, when the victorious nation doesn't have any interest. I saw AI Prussia taking Anjou from AI France (Prussia had 0 0 0 in the target file for Anjou). and afterwards they tried several turns to get an access treaty from France to be able to send troops to their new Province.



sol_invictus -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/5/2005 3:51:30 AM)

I agree, some adjustments to how some provinces are labeled and on the Nations goal list could be made more reasonable.



Mr. Z -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/5/2005 4:35:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

quote:

In the context of the game, a Protectorate is still a sovereign Country, not a vassal. You need to break that Protectorate status through conquest of the Protectorate. The defeated Nation does not have the right nor the authority to simply hand over their independent and sovereign Protectorate; the protected Country would obviously have something to say about it. Think of the relationship as being a very solid defense treaty. IF, a Nation was able to hand off a Protected Country in a peace deal, it should only cancel the Protectorate agreement but it would still be incumbent upon the victor in the preceeding war to have to conquer the newly unprotected Country in order to take political control. That's my thinking on how the mechanics of the game are meant to be interpreted.

That's a nice way of thinking about it, though I would say that in the end we used a variety of interpretations of "protectorate". We realize this might be dissatisfying, and would like to revise the politics of the game somewhat.

quote:

I think the setup of the different scenarios concerning provinces hast to be modified anyway. E.g. Flanders should nt be treated as a protectorate but as country conquered by Austria, the same with Milan. (Tuscany should stay a protectrate).

Using the interpretation Arinvald outlines above, I would say that would be correct.

quote:

Westphalia was not a Austrian protectorate

Ah, but it was ruled at the time by an Archbishop from the Hapsburg dynasty.

quote:

but Prussia had several tiny holdings in the Area of Berg, Kleve and Westphalia. (which were significantly enlarged 1815).

These were too detailed to represent. In some cases we had to make choices between powers which held equal amounts of land in our "provinces".

quote:

I think that the target files should be modified as well.

I agree we could look over these again.



EarlPembroke -> RE: Whats with all the difficulty levels? (7/7/2005 3:32:11 AM)

I'm sure someone has reported this somewhere, but haven't seen it. Britain has a -3 if they own Lower Egypt. I modified the file so that it is a -3 if an enemy owns it. Could have gone with them getting +3 if they own it, but think it must have been intended that main objective was to keep it out of enemy hands.



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